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Mage Wars Arena» Forums » Rules

Subject: Sweeping and Zone Borders rss

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Frank Otte
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With a Melee attack you are allowed to attack a target on a zone border neighboring the zone your are in.

On the other hand, the codex makes it very clear, that apart from this exception, zone borders are not part of their neighboring zones (see Official RULES & CODEX SUPPLEMENT p. 16 [Walls]). For example, zone attacks target only the objects in a zone, but not the objects on the borders of this zone.

With Sweeping you can make another attack of the same type on a different target of the same zone.

Here comes the question: If you target with your first attack of your Sweeping attack action a target in a zone, can you target with your second attack a target on a zone border neighboring this zone (and vice versa)?
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Jonathan Challis
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Really interesting question - I do see your point.

RAW - whilst a normal attack can hit a Wall on the Zone Border, it appears that neither attack in a Sweeping Attack can do so. I'm a veteran player and have never spotted this

That said, I'm fairly sure that this is an oversight, and RAI you could with either/both (2 different walls on two different borders of the same zone that is).

If this interpretation is correct (and I've consulted the Codex and FAQ, as well as the most recent rulebook), it would need Arcane Wonders to rule it differently.

Zuberi is our resident rules guru, and I'm sure he will be along presently to point out if we are overlooking something.
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Ivan Kidd
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Rules As Written: If your first attack hits an object in the zone, then your second attack must hit an object in the same zone, which prevents you from hitting a wall on the zone border. If your first attack hits a wall on the zone border, you will be unable to hit any secondary target because there are no other targets in "the same zone" since the wall wasn't in a zone at all.

I'm not going to guess about the Rules As Intended. There is a forum for Player Feedback and Suggestions on the Arcane Wonders website if you think the rules should work differently. I can definitely agree that this isn't the most thematic way for them to work.
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Jonathan Challis
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Zub3ri wrote:
If your first attack hits a wall on the zone border, you will be unable to hit any secondary target because there are no other targets in "the same zone" since the wall wasn't in a zone at all.


Actually, I think it's even more strange than that - I don't believe that your first attack in a Sweeping Attack can hit the Wall either. Unlike a normal Attack, the text of Sweeping Attacks uses the 'In your Zone...' language.
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Ivan Kidd
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I just double checked to make sure my memory wasn't faulty. Sweeping does not use that exact language. It uses very similar language though: "in the same zone", referring to both targets being in the same zone as each other. You're not limited to attacking things in any particular zone, which is good since there are ranged attacks that have the sweeping trait. Your initial target can be anything within range of the attack, which includes zone borders. But your second target has to be in the same zone as the first.

So, again there's no limitation preventing you from attacking a wall initially, but then your second target would have to be in the same zone as the wall. Since such a zone doesn't exist, there can't possibly be any secondary targets in that zone and you will lose the benefits of the Sweeping trait.
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Jonathan Challis
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Correction agreed on my wording (and my miswording was not germane to the point I was trying to make) - but how can given that a Wall is never in a Zone, how can it be hit by an attack that hit's two targets in the same zone?

I agree that's not RAI, but it looks like a Sweeping Attack can never hit a Wall with either attack in RAW?
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Ivan Kidd
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You may have had a point once upon a time when we weren't sure if the secondary target was mandatory or not, but it has since been confirmed that the Sweeping trait itself is always an optional ability (Supplement pg 21), rendering both of our arguments somewhat moot. You can attack the wall because you can choose to ignore the Sweeping trait and not use it regardless of how you believe the Sweeping trait works when it is used.
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Jonathan Challis
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I'd not spotted that change in the December update. That's a fair point, although I still find the wording odd...
 
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Tom Cannon
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Kelanen wrote:
I'd not spotted that change in the December update. That's a fair point, although I still find the wording odd...


It could be the wording "in the same zone" is intended to clarify the targeting options for a ranged attack with the sweeping trait. There are not many, but the clause makes more sense in that context.
 
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