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Subject: Playing with the Year 1 Magic Items rss

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Chad Edmunds
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My son and I are about to start a 40 game tournament of Hero Realms using the Character Packs. The format will see each of us play each Character against each other Character. In each match-up there will be 4 games.

For example, we will play the WIZARD-FIGHTER match-up as follows:

Dad Adam Start
WIZARD FIGHTER WIZARD
WIZARD FIGHTER FIGHTER
FIGHTER WIZARD WIZARD
FIGHTER WIZARD FIGHTER

We will also be adding the Year 1 promos to the market deck, as we already played a full tournament with the vanilla set-up so time to move to the next format.

None of this is necessarily regarding the variant I am proposing, but I am getting there.

We also want to introduce the Year 1 Magic Items. Here they are (thanks to Katanna for the photo):



I thought to just add each item to their respective Character starter deck, but I am hesitant. I reason I am hesitant is because I suspect there may be a Start Player advantage to this game, in particular when playing with the Character decks. Adding another powerful card to those starters may exasperate that start player advantage, if one exists.

So, the variant I am proposing is this. The magical item will be available on the side. Once you use your Character's major ability (in turn, scrap the card) you can add the magic item card to your discard pile.

Not sure how this might work and was hoping to hear thoughts on it before I start down a long tournament with this variant.

Thanks!
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Don't you want to simply randomly give one to each player, the way Gambit cards are distributed?

You could also try and initiate the XP aspect of the campaign. Items in the campaign will be gained through XP points. Maybe the player with the most experience could choose one item to include in his deck, and then the other player either randomly receives one, or chooses the other one from the remaining items, or is given an item by the player with the most XP?

Anyway, these are just thoughts and might be worthless.

Have fun!
 
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Chad Edmunds
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Razoupaf wrote:

You could also try and initiate the XP aspect of the campaign. Items in the campaign will be gained through XP points. Maybe the player with the most experience could choose one item to include in his deck, and then the other player either randomly receives one, or chooses the other one from the remaining items, or is given an item by the player with the most XP?


I like the idea of assigning XP and using it to get the item. Similar to what I was thinking with the use of the major ability idea. How would you assign/track XP within a single game, as we won't be playing a campaign just yet?
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Thomas Staudt
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When distributing the items randomly, there might be an imbalance if someone "accidentally" gets the item that belongs to the character.
You might want to re-deal in this case.
 
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Chad Edmunds
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ashman wrote:
When distributing the items randomly, there might be an imbalance if someone "accidentally" gets the item that belongs to the character.
You might want to re-deal in this case.


If both characters get their item, would this still be imbalanced? I was thinking of instead of giving the items randomly to give only that character's item to the character.
 
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Matthew Guillemette
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We played a 4-player game of base sets including random distribution of the magic cards from the start of the game (replace one gold with one magic item) The item that did not get distributed was the sword.

Of the other 4, we decided that the most powerful was the bag of holding, since it basically gave you 2 card draws every time it came up, where all the other cards only had one, and a side ability.

I happened to be the one who benefitted from the bag, and ALMOST won, but it still came down to a little teamwork from other players against me, along with more experience so I lost. I have yet to beat my cousin.

So all that said, I would suggest trying a few games just with the cards from the beginning to see how they feel and make your decision from there. I strongly suspect that if they are played with the character they represent, then it will synergize and power them up significantly.

Still love to hear your opinion once you have tried them out a bit.
-Matthew
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Martin
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Schneu wrote:
We played a 4-player game of base sets including random distribution of the magic cards from the start of the game (replace one gold with one magic item)

Did you houseruled it or did you try playing by the rules?
You usually put the treasure card into your starter deck without replacing any card.
 
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Chad Edmunds
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Schneu wrote:
We played a 4-player game of base sets including random distribution of the magic cards from the start of the game (replace one gold with one magic item) The item that did not get distributed was the sword.

Of the other 4, we decided that the most powerful was the bag of holding, since it basically gave you 2 card draws every time it came up, where all the other cards only had one, and a side ability.

I happened to be the one who benefitted from the bag, and ALMOST won, but it still came down to a little teamwork from other players against me, along with more experience so I lost. I have yet to beat my cousin.

So all that said, I would suggest trying a few games just with the cards from the beginning to see how they feel and make your decision from there. I strongly suspect that if they are played with the character they represent, then it will synergize and power them up significantly.

Still love to hear your opinion once you have tried them out a bit.
-Matthew


Adam and I are very excited to try some variations to get these magic items into some games.

I think the magic items will add a lot of fun to the gameplay, and in a campaign and/or cooperative setting they will be awesome. However, in a head to head contest, my fear is they may make the game too swingy.

We will certainly play many games, with many different variations using the magic items. But I have decided we will not use them in this tourney.
 
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Chad Edmunds
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Using the Year 1 Magic Item Treasure Cards for Balance

My son and I have been noticing a little imbalance between the different Characters. Nothing yet very significant, other than the Thief-Ranger match-up. We are seeing that the Ranger is the strongest character and the Thief the weakest, so in their match-up there is a significant difference. Other than this one match-up, however, we have not seen very much imbalance yet. We are only a few games in.

The second thing we suspect at just a few games in is that there may be a Start Player advantage. If there is, we don't want to just throw these Magic Items into the starter decks, potentially exasperating that Start Player advantage. That said, we do want to use the items.

I will list what I see as the strongest to weakest use of the Magic Items, and maybe depending on the match-up, using one to balance the game.

Obviously giving one Character their Magic Item, and not the other Character in the match-up would close the gap significantly. However, I fear that would tip the scales too far to the other side, so I left that option off the list.

Option 1 - Replace a gold with the Magic Item. This not only thins the starter deck significantly, but also gets a strong card into play in Deck 1.

Option 2 - Add the Magic Item to the starter deck. Slightly less strong than Option 1 only because the deck thinning does not apply.

Option 3 - Add the Magic Item in the discard pile at the start of the game. This offers no deck thinning and the card does not see play until Deck 2.

Option 4* - Add the Magic Item to the discard pile on the first use of the minor ability. This would likely not see action until deck 3 as Gold is precious early on and would often be used to buy cards in the market row. But, it could be used Deck 1 to ensure the card sees play deck 2.

* This option could be made more/less strong by replacing the discard with "top of deck" or "in hand". Also made mmore/less strong by replacing "first use" with "second/third/fourth use".

Option 5 - Add the Magic Item to the discard pile on the first use of the major ability. The Major abilities require good timing to be most effective. For most of the major abilities, the best timing usually happens mid-late game. Meaning, the Magic Item will not see play until deck 4+.

Using the Thief-Ranger match-up that likely needs something to make it more balanced, let's look at a couple examples of uses for these options to gain that balance.

Example 1 - Both Characters add the Magic Item after using the Major Ability. The Ranger has very good draw in its starter. The Thief does not. Also, the Ranger would likely use its Major ability mid-late game whereas the Thief will likely use its Major right away. Meaning, the Thief would get some much needed draw by deck 2 vs. the Ranger not getting its Magic item until deck 4+.

Example 2 - The Thief using Option 1 and the Ranger Option 3. The Thief gets much needed draw in deck 1, as well as thinning its deck a little, and the Ranger does not see its card until deck 2.

Obviously all of these would have to be play tested (oh no, more Hero Realms for Adam and I?!?!?) but I could see using these 5 cards as an excellent way to offset any imbalance issues that may be seen in your games.
 
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Dimitris Chrysopoulos
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AJEddy wrote:

My son and I have been noticing a little imbalance between the different Characters. Nothing yet very significant, other than the Thief-Ranger match-up. We are seeing that the Ranger is the strongest character and the Thief the weakest, so in their match-up there is a significant difference....


I (playing the Thief) managed to thwart my friend's plans (playing the Ranger) and came back from 66-14 the other day. Going green-heavy and discarding usually 3 cards from my opponent did the trick

Nonetheless, great analysis with all the options thumbsupthumbsup
 
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Matthew Guillemette
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AJEddy wrote:
Using the Year 1 Magic Item Treasure Cards for Balance

I will list what I see as the strongest to weakest use of the Magic Items, and maybe depending on the match-up, using one to balance the game.


Awesome analysis and lots of variants to try out! Did you eventually settle on one? How did it work out? Love your testing enthusiasm, WWG should recruit you and Adam for playtesting the campaign!

-Matthew
 
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Chad Edmunds
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Schneu wrote:
Awesome analysis and lots of variants to try out! Did you eventually settle on one? How did it work out? Love your testing enthusiasm, WWG should recruit you and Adam for playtesting the campaign!

-Matthew


Thanks Matthew.

We have not yet played with these cards, as we are playing through a full tourney first before committing to any balancing:

Tournament of Heroes, Season 2

However, and because this is just for funzies (although I admit I would love to see this game get competitive, but I doubt it can/will happen), we will simply balance on the fly. I would like to get the magic items into every game, and with options like those listed, we can get them into every game easily enough if we pay attention to balance, and bring them in in different ways depending on the match-up.

BTW Matthew, I like that you went with the same idea as me for your avatar...use a self photo. Nice....must be a Canadian thing.

 
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