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Legendary Encounters: An Alien Deck Building Game Expansion» Forums » Rules

Subject: Queen Mother and Drone count rss

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Tibs
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This seems like a question with an obvious answer, but since I didn't come across it in the rules I'd like to be completely sure.

If you're playing with a Queen Mother player, do you add drones as though there is one less player in the game?

In other words, for a Queen Mother with 1/2/3/4 human players, do you add drones to the hive deck as though it was a 1/2/3/4-player game, or 2/3/4/5?

I suspect it's the former.
 
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Billy Bob
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Follow what the queen playmat says. At least that's what I do.
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Ravage Board Gaming
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Stallion12 wrote:
Follow what the queen playmat says. At least that's what I do.


But is that including the Queen Mother in the player count? I'd say no.

Although... maybe an extra drone/prep round would help compensate for the extra difficulty of having the QM playing.
 
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Joey Lujan
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the count inside the manual and on the mat are different. when playing with the alien queen, use the drone count on the mat. also note, it tells you "number of HUMAN players". the queen is not human, and thus is not included in the total count
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Billy Bob
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As stated, the Matt says how many human players, notice it only goes up to four when the queen mother mode can go to 5 players. The fifth player is the queen. So if you have 4 human players and the queen, you follow what it says on the queen mat. It sounds like your thinking to into it. If the queen mat included the queen player it wouldn't cap at 4.
 
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Tibs
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I don't have the playmat because I don't have the expansion, and the gallery here only features low-res pictures that I assume are taken from the upperdeck site. But I still needed to know the answer in order to update the public stats site.

It would have been nice to have seen this clarification in the rules somewhere, even if it was simply "refer to the Queen mat for additional setup rules."

Even still, it seems like the number of prep rounds is different from the non-Queen games, which will be important to know for the stats site. Does anyone have or know where I can see a higher-res version of the mat's chart? User Mechaniac has hooked me up with a photo of this chart. Many thanks!
 
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Billy Bob
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I guess it was to save space, if your playing the queen mode, your probably using the mat, you only got confused because you don't own the expansion yet.
 
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kungfro wrote:
This seems like a question with an obvious answer, but since I didn't come across it in the rules I'd like to be completely sure.

If you're playing with a Queen Mother player, do you add drones as though there is one less player in the game?

In other words, for a Queen Mother with 1/2/3/4 human players, do you add drones to the hive deck as though it was a 1/2/3/4-player game, or 2/3/4/5?

I suspect it's the former.

The rulebook very clearly states the Queen Mother does not count toward the number of player for any purpose. So your question is actually covered by the rulebook. Albeit with Queen Mother you might want to add more drones to make things winnable for humans.
 
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Tibs
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I don't mean to be cynical, especially because I know the answer, but where in the rule is this clearly stated?

I found this:

p2:
"one player is the Queen Mother"
"there should be 1-4 Human Players"
p3:
"The Queen Mother Player does not count as a “player” for the purposes of card effects"

This is all very circumstantial, but not conclusive. As has been already pointed out, the Queen play mat has the answer by providing its own drone chart and ignoring the rulebook's, but the rulebook doesn't even mention that.
 
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Billy Bob
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That line was clear to me, the mat only confirms it for people reading to into it.
 
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Matthew Dimalanta
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I saw the player count in the rules for the Queen. I haven't played that mode, but is there a particular reason that you can't do 5 human players and a player queen?

I'm sure there is a reason other than "that's what the book says", however, I haven't figured it out yet.
 
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Joey Lujan
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fenixmatt wrote:
I saw the player count in the rules for the Queen. I haven't played that mode, but is there a particular reason that you can't do 5 human players and a player queen?

I'm sure there is a reason other than "that's what the book says", however, I haven't figured it out yet.


i'm guessing it's just for balancing purposes. you can still play with a 6th player, if you wish, but it might be a bit unbalanced
 
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David Karl
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One thing which I'm not sure has been taken into account in terms of balance between humans/Queen Mother is the number of human player turns between Queen Mother turns. Sure there are more drones in the hive when you add the Queen Mother player, but that's only linear. Effectively you just jump up one row in the table. But having one Queen turn per human turn is really not balanced, whereas having three or four human turns per Queen turn might be a bit too easy for the humans.

I just played it 1v1 as a human, using who I consider the strongest Avatar (the mercenary) and got SMASHED. Going up to two players would halve the damage the Queen player can do, because the humans would get twice as many turns between hers. That's not linear. I'd almost go as far as saying that the number of drones added to the hive should be the same regardless of the number of players, probably somewhere around the 4/5/6 mark.

In the standard game, factors to balance are:
1. The deck improvement factor, i.e. the number of rounds you have to improve your deck. In one player games, it's one for every card in the hive by default, so increasing the player count diminishes this, i.e. makes it harder for the human players.
2. The deck specialisation factor, i.e. how much you can focus your deck on a particular set of skills. In one player games, there is little to no opportunity to specialise, or specialising costs too much in terms of skills not covered, so increasing the player count makes this easier.

The difference between 1 and 2 is accounted for in terms of the number of drones added. 1 is a larger factor than 2, so as players are added, the hive is padded out with weaker drones to allow more rounds to improve your deck.

Now add the Queen Mother and factor 3 is the number of rounds that the Queen Mother has to wreak havoc. At one human player, she gets as many rounds as there are cards in the hive (by default). At two she gets half that. At three she gets a third, etc., so it's non-linear, but it seems the balancing by means of the drones still only takes into account factors 1 and 2.

I'm probably going to have to play dozens of games to (dis)prove this; oh woe is me!
 
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