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Subject: Rules problems/clarifications rss

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Nate Hodges
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I set this forum up so Kickstarter backers could discuss and help each other figure out some of the rules.
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Craig Partridge
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Still waiting for my copy to arrive, but given the posts on the Kickstarter page about issues with rules & game contents, I'm sure there will be many a post to follow.
 
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Asa Swain
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I got my copy of the Wizard School in the mail. I just read over the rules to the game and have a few questions:

How do you escape from combat? The rules say: "Escape tip: When you lose an attack against a monster there are consequences. You don't suffer those consequences if you escape!" But I see no mention off escaping in any of the cards. Does the card just mean you can attack and then chose to run away without playing any cards and not suffer any consequences (except completely wasting your action?) I'm confused how this works.

How do you save a magic card? The rules say "Saving a card can happen any time the Acting Wizard moves a magic card to the discard pile." But it never says what you do to save a card. Flip a coin?

I like the humor in the rulebook, but it's not well organized and seems a bit confusing. End with comments that if the game is confusing or you accidentally make mistakes, that's just the fun of the game, seems like a lame excuse for not clearly explaining about how to play.
 
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Melissa Vaughn
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The book does explain escaping... it's just on the next page from the tip. It says, in the "get punished" section, that if you fail in attacking a monster, you can flip a coin (er, roll dice) and if successful, you can escape with no penalty and if the flip fails then you lose a grade. I assume each wizard, the active one and the assisting, can each roll for them selves but it is sort of vague.

Also, you can save a magic card if you have a card that says that you can. I'm not looking at the game, but I remember seeing a magical friend and an item that you can equip that allows you to save cards with a specific rule... like a coin flip.

I read the rule book, but have yet to actually play the game. I question these things:
-Equipping items... It says at any time during your turn you can equip or discard an item. "An item" tells me one one per turn, but it doesn't really say that. Can all three max items (for some characters) be equipped the same turn if the person had the cards for it? Are items discarded after use? or do they stay until we discard them?
-if you attack a monster, you can only play 1 magical card, right? And this card can be used along with your equipped items, a magical friend (if played), and an assisting player magical card and if any other players use a magical friend... when trying to defeat a monster, test, or milestone?
- I assume more then one magical friend can be played by a single player? It sounds like from the rules more then one can be played among all the players.

I also want to know if more people have a discrepancy with components. The book says 5 pawns and 6 milestone markers... I got 8 pawns and no markers. Doesn't say anything about getting a coin or a die... but it is nice that they included a die. It's nice to have extra pawns in different colors... I'm most concerned over the missing markers? Was this a mistake? Did anyone get them? Are the extra pawns suppose to take place? If so, it still doesn't make sense since it's a 5 player, 8-5 only leaves 3 tokens not 6. However, looking at the graduation cards, none have more then 3 tasks, which means you'll only really need 2 since as soon as you complete the 3rd, it's done... SO perhaps they just included pawns instead of the markers?? I read in the Kickstarter comments area at least one other person mentioned not getting them. Has anything been said about it?
 
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Asa Swain
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Thanks for the rules clarifications, much appreciated.

I received 8 pawns as well. I heard a rumor you were supposed to use your own markers. I agree the leftover pawns work okay for marking which milestones you've achieved.

If you look on the main kickstarter page it describes the contents as being 214 cards, reference cads, a single die, and the rules. At some point the die got replaced in the instructions with a coin. I agree rolling a die is easier than flipping a coin. For a card game there seems to be a lot of coin flipping in the gameplay.
 
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Benjamin Ra
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rubberducky28 wrote:
The book does explain escaping... it's just on the next page from the tip. It says, in the "get punished" section, that if you fail in attacking a monster, you can flip a coin (er, roll dice) and if successful, you can escape with no penalty and if the flip fails then you lose a grade. I assume each wizard, the active one and the assisting, can each roll for them selves but it is sort of vague.

Also, you can save a magic card if you have a card that says that you can. I'm not looking at the game, but I remember seeing a magical friend and an item that you can equip that allows you to save cards with a specific rule... like a coin flip.

I read the rule book, but have yet to actually play the game. I question these things:
-Equipping items... It says at any time during your turn you can equip or discard an item. "An item" tells me one one per turn, but it doesn't really say that. Can all three max items (for some characters) be equipped the same turn if the person had the cards for it? Are items discarded after use? or do they stay until we discard them?
-if you attack a monster, you can only play 1 magical card, right? And this card can be used along with your equipped items, a magical friend (if played), and an assisting player magical card and if any other players use a magical friend... when trying to defeat a monster, test, or milestone?
- I assume more then one magical friend can be played by a single player? It sounds like from the rules more then one can be played among all the players.

I also want to know if more people have a discrepancy with components. The book says 5 pawns and 6 milestone markers... I got 8 pawns and no markers. Doesn't say anything about getting a coin or a die... but it is nice that they included a die. It's nice to have extra pawns in different colors... I'm most concerned over the missing markers? Was this a mistake? Did anyone get them? Are the extra pawns suppose to take place? If so, it still doesn't make sense since it's a 5 player, 8-5 only leaves 3 tokens not 6. However, looking at the graduation cards, none have more then 3 tasks, which means you'll only really need 2 since as soon as you complete the 3rd, it's done... SO perhaps they just included pawns instead of the markers?? I read in the Kickstarter comments area at least one other person mentioned not getting them. Has anything been said about it?

We played tonight and thought that...
1. Playing an item doesnt use an action so you can play as many on your turn as you want.
2. attacking a monster you can either use a spell or your fav. spell listed on your char. card with any items that enhance that to assist it. then one other can assist with a spell card but not their fav char spell.
3. like 1 the rule book doesnt state(that i saw) that you can only play one per turn. but can play as many as long as the text makes them applicable.

and i got a baggy with 8 markers and 1 die too. no milestone markers. was thinking of grabbing 3-4 cubes from another game for this
 
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Mike Lee
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Yep, pretty sure you can equip/discard as many items as you want on your turn. Once an item is equipped, you can keep using it until you discard it (just follow the instructions on the card for activation conditions). Note that if you choose to discard an item, you can't save it with another ability/item.

For Magical Friends, page 5 of the rulebook states that 'ANY wizard may play any number of Magical Friend cards from their hand at any point during an attack'.

Regarding components, designer confirmed on Twitter that the rulebook is misprinted. Everyone received 8 pawns and a die (for some reason). I think the 3 extra pawns are used to keep progress of milestones (for example, if you killed 1 out of 2 green monsters required, you can use a pawn to show you're halfway there).
 
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Shana Morris
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I have been using the die as the coin, even is success and odd is fail. I was a little confused on one thing. So some of the graduation cards say things like defeat three monsters, so do you go it and you complete the milestone or does someone in the group have to use their action to so it gets marked? When it says wizard has x magical friends in their hand, I did it where that person has to use an action to get that. Since the monster thing is a group goal I don't know.
 
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Blue Guldal
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We played for the first time. It took us a while to finish the first graduation card, and we stopped there. Many things were a bit vague, but here are the main issues we had:

1) Items: so one can have as many items as indicated on their character card (1, 2, 3, etc.) This means that the item goes in front of you next to the character card. This item can be used, if conditions met, during attacking a monster. Can it be used to achieve a graduation milestone or taking a test (we assumed yes, since these 3 things are similar "like attacking a monster"). Once an item is used, does it get discarded? If not, when and how is an item discarded (we assumed that, like in most games like this, when you are allowed 3 items and have already 3 items but want to get rid of one and replace it with one from your hand, you simply discard it and add the new one in front of you).

2) Graduation milestone with magic symbols: If the milestone has 5 magic symbols (any magic, usually) does that mean you have to have that many or more in total? We assumed yes, since no one card has that many on it. So this means add all the magic you can get from your spell/specialty, items, friends, etc.

3) Monster cards: we were confused about the top text on the monster cards. When does this take effect (usually bad stuff, unless it is a "friendly" monster)? When the monster comes into play (drawn from the school deck when wizard has to go to school) or when monster is attacked and not defeated or when school attacks? The bottom (good stuff, usually drawing cards) happens when wizards attack monster and win, correct? So by the same token, the bad stuff should be when the wizards attack and lose? And then school attacks, and the bad stuff happens again?! (say: wizards attacked monster, they lost, card says to discard 4 cards. active wizards discards 4 cards. then school attacks, discard 4 cards, so active player discards 4 more cards?)

4) Escaping a monster: There is no escape when "school attacks," correct? The escaping (rolling die/flipping coin to escape) only happens when wizard(s) attack a monster as the active player's action, they lose, and then they have to get punished by the monster, so they roll to try to escape with no consequences... But when school attacks, the bad thing on the monster card (see my 3rd question above) happens (lose 4 cards, etc.), no escape.

5) Why would anyone ever LOSE an attack on a monster? Since this is a cooperative game and attacks are discussed and planned a head of time, how and why would the wizards ever lose to a monster? Wouldn't you only attack when you knew you could win? OR, is it that the active player THINKS they can attack and win against one of the monsters roaming the halls, DECLARES they are attacking that monster (possibly hoping others can help) and THEN the attack is discussed and the other players try to help... In a scenario like this, it is possible then to lose, if the other players cannot help at all or the active player was too ambitious and depended on a lot of help from others which then did not come through... (this just occurred to me; when I read and re-read the rules, I did not think declaring had to be secret without knowing whether the others can help or not.)

6) Only one monster can be attacked with one action, correct? So if there are 2 or 3 monsters in play (roaming the halls), the active player has to declare which monster to attack.

7) We played for an hour with one initial monster, and barely finished the first graduation card. Was it us, that a lot was done, but not much achieved, or the game?

I am sure we have more questions, but these seemed the most naive and obvious.
 
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Jim Sharples
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My daughter and I have attempted to play this a couple of times now and not gotten past the first graduation card each time.

We assumed monsters bad stuff only happens on school strikes back not failed attacks. Any number of items can be placed on your turn. Items are discarded if it makes sense to do so (ie single use consumables vs equipped wand for example).

The issue we had, with a player count of two, was scaling. We can't seem to generate enough magic to beat anything, especially the graduation milestones. And since you only get new cards when you sacrifice your action or finally beat a monster/test we couldn't get cards fast enough to be effective.

We ended up house ruling as follows:
1. Each wizard gets two actions, not one, which is usually used to draw a card
2. Signature spells are always available, even from an assistant

Honestly did they even play test this? With more players it should, maybe, be easier??
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JP Hav
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1. Items stay and either have a permanent or returning ability. If you want to replace an item, you need to discard it. Many items are not combat related, but if they are they can be used to attack graduation milestones, tests and monster. I have noticed that some items cards where it was unclear when you could use it use, how often and how long the effect would last.

2. Graduation milestones with magic target you attack them like monsters. You can be assisted, use items, favors from magical friends, spells etc.

3. Was not sure here. The way I understand it was the top text is what happens when the monster strikes.

5. It is possible to rely on flipped coins to beat a monster. For example a coin flip can sometimes double the attack power. I don't expect people would often rely on that, but it is possible.

7. It is hard in the beginning. You are kinda constantly rushing to fight new monsters and beat tests. You need to use the breaks to you get from activity cards or friendly monsters. I found studying, exploring and panicing generally poor choices, cause it makes your 'problems' at hand bigger and you get more from beating monsters. Always don't worry too much about losing a grade. You can generally see grade drops coming, so even when you are a D you can manage usually.
After a while you will get card combo's (usually involving saves). In the end of my last game, I had a combo to automatically pass my coin flips, stop monsters from attacking, stop school cards from being opened, draw magic cards, and save the involved cards, so I could repeat it each turn. Another player could return cards from the discard pile each turn. The last year we finished in 3 rounds (It was freshmen difficulty).

My own questions were:

What happens if your magic deck runs empty. Do you lose? Do you continue without drawing cards anymore? Do you reshuffle the discard pile?

The wording on a number of cards was confusing. Especially the word 'replace' I found confusion. For example, 'draw 4 cards, give away the item cards to another player, replace the other cards'. Does replacing mean put it back on the deck? Cause on other cards they do use the words 'put the cards back on the deck'.
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Blue Guldal
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JP Hav, thanks for your response.

We assumed you reshuffle the discarded magic cards when you run out.

The wording is certainly vague on many cards. Your question is very valid; we assumed replacing means discard and draw new ones.

RE 5: In the rulebook, the escape by die roll is under "attacking a monster." So you attack a monster, if you're successful, you get reward, if not you can roll die to try to escape, if you cannot escape, bad thing on monster card happens. THEN school attacks back, meaning when the active wizard is done with all their actions (one or possibly more), the monsters that are roaming the halls of the school attack the active wizard (determined by the monster symbol at the back of the top school card). Now, can the player roll the die AGAIN to try to escape? Or do the bad thing(s) on the monster card happen no matter what? There is no section in rule book detailing "escape from school attack."
 
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Blue Guldal
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Jsharples wrote:
My daughter and I have attempted to play this a couple of times now and not gotten past the first graduation card each time.

We assumed monsters bad stuff only happens on school strikes back not failed attacks. Any number of items can be placed on your turn. Items are discarded if it makes sense to do so (ie single use consumables vs equipped wand for example).

The issue we had, with a player count of two, was scaling. We can't seem to generate enough magic to beat anything, especially the graduation milestones. And since you only get new cards when you sacrifice your action or finally beat a monster/test we couldn't get cards fast enough to be effective.

We ended up house ruling as follows:
1. Each wizard gets two actions, not one, which is usually used to draw a card
2. Signature spells are always available, even from an assistant

Honestly did they even play test this? With more players it should, maybe, be easier??

Thanks for your response, Jim. I think your assumption that the bad thing happens when the school attacks makes sense. We will play like this next time.

I agree that with 2 players graduation milestones seem very difficult. We had difficulty with 3 players!!! I like your house rules for 2 players. I think part of the difficulty was our unfamiliarity with all the cards. I expect as you play more and more and get familiar with the cards, things will become easier. (I prefer something like Munchkin in this sense; there, at least, you have certain universal rules that are easy to remember and and remind others, like "elves can do this" or "dwarves have this ability." Here, you have a gazillion characters, each with their own unique abilities [not just one, but several things], which is great for diversity and variability, but make it very difficult to remember everything for new players.) I have had a similar reaction, that this was either not play tested much or by the same people who became familiar with all the cards by repetition.
 
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Jonathan Bailey
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Got my copy yesterday and played for the first time tonight. We were a little confused by Steven Seer's requirement to change to an upperclassman. Does anybody know what being hit by three "double symbols" in a turn might mean?
 
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Ilja Preuß
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Jsharples wrote:
My daughter and I have attempted to play this a couple of times now and not gotten past the first graduation card each time.

...

Honestly did they even play test this? With more players it should, maybe, be easier??

I've played my first two player game today, with graduation difficulty 1,2,3,4. It actually seemed kinda easy...
 
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Kyle Cuthbert
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ipreuss wrote:
[q="Jsharples"]My daughter and I have attempted to play this a couple of times now and not gotten past the first graduation card each time.

...

I've played my first two player game today, with graduation difficulty 1,2,3,4. It actually seemed kinda easy...

Agreed. My wife and I played 1-2-3-4 with 2 monster start, and we didn't loose a single grade until the 3rd level. (And without ever tutoring we only ever got down to a C). We never gave a monster with a relevant effect time to attack, and never failed a test. By the middle of the game I started to wonder what to do with my 20 cards, and often my turns consisted of "Well I can do anything on the table with only my signature spell and items" and my wife saying "Well I can give you enough extra actions to do all of them"

EDIT: I think this may be a player scaling issue. Because of the big hand sizes, a little initial luck lets you breeze through most everything, except the odd milestone which is almost impossible for two people. That's probably why first playthroughs are so polarized.

EDIT2: I've played two games with 2 Players, a 4 and a 5. Can confirm this seems to be a scaling issue. It's still fairly easy regardless (unless certain synergies stack against you), but it's much more consistent, and feels more intentional.


Questions from my first playthrough:


1. The "Kitty Dragon" reads "Save a Magical Friend card. Flip a coin. If successful, return this card to your hand instead of discarding it." Does this last part count as "saving" the Kitty Dragon? Or if I fail can I save it another way?

2. This is a big one. If I save a friend, can it be used again immediately? This Attack? This Turn?

3. Depending on the answer to question 2, can I save infinite friends/turn assuming I keep winning the Kitty Dragon coin toss? Keep in mind "Gulumpagoop" lets you "Automatically succeed on all coin flips during your turn." When combined with any of host of other cards this could allow you infinite actions, infinite draws (even including from the discard pile) and so on. Similar infinity exploits exist with the "Trained Rabbit", "Bounty Hunter" and potentially "Unreliable BFF" which can be used to co-rescue the Kitty Dragon until it succeeds. I recommend simply adding "Once per turn" to the Kitty Dragon, just like on "Google".

4. No hand-size limit or deck run-out rules?
According to Hank, "Reshuffle!" (either deck when it runs out)

5. For the Deja Vu card "Only looking at the fronts, arrange the top 3 cards of the school deck..." which is the front? If it's the side I think, how can you possibly count three cards off the top of the deck without seeing the backs?

6. For milestones like "Eternal Substitute"'s "The wizards use 3 magical friends during a single attack" What counts as during? What about friends which let you draw two cards any time? Or ones that save other cards used in the attack?

7. "Kevin Kelvin"'s Special ability allows him to flip to save friends. His goal is to save 5. Must he save them using this ability? Or does it count if the player saves them some other way.

8. Upon an unsuccessful attack on a monster, "The attacking wizard and any wizard who assisted in the attack flip a coin. If successful the wizard escapes. If a wizard does not escape, lower their grade." This could be read two ways. If anyone fails, the active wizard goes down, or if anyone fails, those who fail go down.

9. How much communication are people allowing between players?
In his video, Hank indicates full communication.

10. the "Friendly Octopus of Terror" reads "Flip a coin. If successful improve the wizard's grade. Move this Monster to the Discard pile if this happens." Given a success where the grade does not improve because it was already maxed, or due to some other effect, did "this happen"?

11. Why are 8 pawns included for a max 5 player game? They're too big for question 12 purposes (and we'd still need more anyway)

12. Anyone find a good way to track upperclassmen goals and graduation milestones?

Edit: New questions:
13. When you are forced to discard cards, or play something which has a discard x cards cost, must they be from your hand? Or may you discard equipped items?
According to Hank, you can discard either. https://twitter.com/hankgreen/status/823683791612968960

14. Do keep-this-card tests count as in your hand?

15. The "Dumbass Beanie" is an item that reads "If a monster forces you to discard this card, draw two cards". If forced to discard it from you hand, does its effect trigger?

16. When forced to discard any card, but choosing a spell (for example), do "when forced to discard a spell" cards trigger?

17. Milestones which require two players to empty their hands are ridiculously harsh in a two player game. (No trading to a third party, and it's literally every card.) Any way to balance that?
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Mike P
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I am adding a file for Wizard School that hopefully will help everyone play this game. Just waiting for file approval. I will also be adding a few more things to the file for additional clarifications.

I tried to put in rules clarifications that were on the forum already, as well as trying to write some simplified rules (because just like everyone else that has played this game, realized the rules were not written well.)
 
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Melissa Delp
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Darkwynd wrote:
Got my copy yesterday and played for the first time tonight. We were a little confused by Steven Seer's requirement to change to an upperclassman. Does anybody know what being hit by three "double symbols" in a turn might mean?



We assumed that the double symbols referred to the school deck (some cards have a monster type and the F; maybe even two monsters for the school strikes back option). With Steven Seer's ability to discard the top card, he could potentially reveal one with a double symbol. The person playing with Steven would need to decide what is better: achieving upperclassmen requirements or being hit with two attacks. Best case scenario is that one of the symbols doesn't affect him (for example: no green monsters in play)
 
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Madeline Turnipseed
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Thanks for making this thread, we tried our first playthrough (two players) tonight and we hung up on the graduation cards as well. We played where milestones have to be fulfilled by attacks on monsters or tests (since they say magical target). But as pointed out here, no monsters or tests required five illusion spells (Milestone #1 of Evil Baby Invasion) unless you elected to defeat the Hydraffe in this way, but that was the only five any-spell monster I could find. We may play variations of requiring milestones to be separate attacks or allowing attacks against monsters or tests to do double duty towards milestones, if they can. We'll also be figuring out some sort of marker for the milestones.

Also glad to see we're not the only ones that found the box a two-person job to open. May wax the inside corners of the lid and see if that makes it easier.

 
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Chris Castle
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The special ability on Lotana O'Lotan - to discard a card to stay at your current grade. Are these done as many times as wanted or once? It seems over powered to do it as many times as you want. Much like Che Aiza rolling until he gets the roll he wants to draw a card (or draw multiple cards).
 
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Eric Juneau
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I think it's as many times as needed. Grade lowering doesn't happen that often, and it can be quite devastating when it does. It takes sacrificing a turn to bring someone's grade up.

Edit: Here's a question of my own. One of the Graduation cards (I forget which one, it's freshman level) says "One wizard has four magical items in their hand". But magical items need to be on the table so they can be used "in play" (kind of like M:TG cards). They're the items in your backpack (so you can only have 2-4 out, depending on your character). That means some can be in hand too, ones that are not active. So the question is does "in hand" mean in my possession or only ones I'm keeping in my hand (like a hoarder)?
 
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