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LOAD: League of Ancient Defenders» Forums » General

Subject: Update 64: Archon asks backers to rate LOAD rss

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Freelance Police
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Quote:
As all the base games are sent, and they are enough to get the taste of the game, we have a something to ask you. While campaign was live, LOAD received quite a few 1’s as the game rating on the scale on BGG which goes from 1 to 10 (even before people had a chance to play it). We would like to ask you to help us rectify this unfairness.

Please, take a few minutes of your time to go to:
https://boardgamegeek.com/boardgame/195547/load-league-ancie...
and give LOAD a rating you think it deserves now that you have it. You can do it by clicking on appropriate number of stars (shown on picture below).



Retailers look at these ratings and we want LOAD to be able to be found in your local game stores. Thank you for that in advance!
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Stuart Holttum
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Of course, that should apply equally to anyone who voted it a 10 during the campaign, and who has now had a chance to play it and see what's it is really like....
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steffan kristensen
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The wording is a bit iffy.
The overall message should have been something like "Now that you have all recieved your game, we would greatly appreciate it, if you would rate it on BGG".

Instead, it sound more like "Our game has been unfairly rated! Please help us right this wrong!"
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Brett M
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ssk0909 wrote:
The wording is a bit iffy.
The overall message should have been something like "Now that you have all recieved your game, we would greatly appreciate it, if you would rate it on BGG".

Instead, it sound more like "Our game has been unfairly rated! Please help us right this wrong!"


Augh.... agreed. I for one don't rate games I don't play but am very tempted to make an exception after reading this. This games current rating is pretty generous from what I have read. There are a fair number of bad one ratings for sure... but there are equal if not more tens that are not legit... many of which were also from people who had never played it. Quite a few even just talk about how it is the first KS to deliver on time. Great! That is wonderful (seriously... not being sarcastic). But that does NOT make it a great game deserving of a ten. If it is to you, no worries but everything I have read from numerous sources says this is an average game with great components... with a very bad (and deserved) history.

Makes sense now that their new game is not listed on BGG yet despite having ads for it in the banners etc.... wouldn't want more unfair ratings.

EDIT: Apparently I can jsut leave a comment and no rating. A nice happy median (even if for some reason it now shows up as being in my collection despite not checking owned or anything else... weird)
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Skolo
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ssk0909 wrote:
The wording is a bit iffy.
The overall message should have been something like "Now that you have all recieved your game, we would greatly appreciate it, if you would rate it on BGG".

Instead, it sound more like "Our game has been unfairly rated! Please help us right this wrong!"


Because it was. People were voting not against the game, but against Archon/Prodos AvP situation and that was lame. Action re-action.
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Stuart Holttum
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skolo wrote:
People were voting not against the game, but against Archon/Prodos AvP situation and that was lame.


Maybe. But the alternative is for a company to be able to change its name, and walk away from the clusterfunk of its previous releases (as Archon tried desperately hard to do, revealing who they were only after a lot of detective work by backers).

While in many ways I agree with your point - that each game should be rated solely on its own merits - the alternative gives a green light to companies to screw over their customers with zero effect on future business. And for that reason, I can't condemn anyone for 1-rating LOAD as a protest against the company.
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Brett M
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skolo wrote:
ssk0909 wrote:
The wording is a bit iffy.
The overall message should have been something like "Now that you have all recieved your game, we would greatly appreciate it, if you would rate it on BGG".

Instead, it sound more like "Our game has been unfairly rated! Please help us right this wrong!"


Because it was. People were voting not against the game, but against Archon/Prodos AvP situation and that was lame. Action re-action.


That's the thing though... I 100% agree that the early 1 star ratings were not fair... but one can say the same of all the ten star ratings from backers who had not played the game (or even the PnP)... and while some were only in reaction to the one stars... there were plenty before that too. It went both ways and the BGG system does allow for it. I 100% agree though that all ratings before playing the game are lame.

The issue I take with this is Archons stance on this. Their wording shows they still feel slighted and unfairly treated. They were not. They made some very bad moves with this project at the outset (even if the worst was done by an outside consultant as they say) that hurt their project. It was not simply old backers from AvP following them.

Their words are not the stance of someone who understands the mistakes they made. For me at least this just reset the progress they had made in my mind recently with their stellar delivery and components. I had been impressed and was giving them props when this project came up. I still wish them the best in future projects and take no issue with any future projects... but this made me much less likely to back them in the future.

I totally get the importance of BGG ratings but they clearly feel unjustly treated here... and to me that is not the case. They need to own up to their mistakes on this one and be happy so many people still put their faith in them. Stefan put it perfectly above. If they had just asked nicely for reviews their would be no issue. But I take plagiarism very seriously and they do not seem to have accepted their part in that... or the bad self imposed NDA to hide their identity even if I totally get why.
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Carlos D
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After LOAD was successfully delivered I would have expected an apology from you lot. Because, you were very active "warning" backers and potential backers that they will not deliver. Well, they delivered a fun game with the best minis I have seen in a board game, and not only that, but they have run an exemplary campaign and costumer service before, during and after delivery of the games. But, instead of having the courage to accept that you were in the wrong, you open yet another thread to take a cheap shots, nit pick and make assumptions on the statements from an update from Archon. The fact of the matter is that they asked us backers to rate the game as we saw fit and that is what we did.
You should know a lot of backers regret pulling out from LOAD and it was because of statements made by people like you, who seem to have a vendetta. Otherwise, I do not understand the amount of time that you have invested in starting thread and writing comments about a game that you did not back and do not own. Furthermore, one of you even stated in your rating of LOAD that you have never played the game and yet you rate it with a 2.
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Þráinn Gunnlaugur Þorsteinsson
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Seriously guys, the rating system is for rating the game, not rating your opinion of the company that makes the game.

And what the hell is up with you "Freelance Police (Sam and Max)"?? I subscribe to games I own to follow up on discussion regarding them. You on the other hand seem to be obsessed with LOAD in a negative way based on the creator of the game and posting here over a duration of time just to criticize the company without owning the game, having played the game and having no intentions of buying the game. Isn't this subforum for the game LOAD?

Here is an idea, why don't you go use your time PLAYING boardgames or participating in communities around boardgames you enjoy.. What a sad sad way to be obsessed. whistle
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Alice Penn Howard
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Personally, I payed a ton of the Pnp during the ks campaign and after and rated the game a 10 and after recieving the game and getting it to the table I am still happy with that rating. I love getting LOAD to the table every oppertunity i get
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Brett M
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cadblur wrote:
After LOAD was successfully delivered I would have expected an apology from you lot. Because, you were very active "warning" backers and potential backers that they will not deliver. Well, they delivered a fun game with the best minis I have seen in a board game, and not only that, but they have run an exemplary campaign and costumer service before, during and after delivery of the games. But, instead of having the courage to accept that you were in the wrong, you open yet another thread to take a cheap shots, nit pick and make assumptions on the statements from an update from Archon. The fact of the matter is that they asked us backers to rate the game as we saw fit and that is what we did.
You should know a lot of backers regret pulling out from LOAD and it was because of statements made by people like you, who seem to have a vendetta. Otherwise, I do not understand the amount of time that you have invested in starting thread and writing comments about a game that you did not back and do not own. Furthermore, one of you even stated in your rating of LOAD that you have never played the game and yet you rate it with a 2.


If anyone regrets not backing the game based on my thread, then I truly do apologize to them. I was very purposefully not telling people not to back it though. I just wanted people to make informed decision and wanted to condense the many hours I spent looking into the game (both positive and negative). For what it's worth I still believe it was a very risky move to back this game but am impressed with how well they delivered (and freely admit they did amazing).

As for why I still check this every once and a while (I just have a subscription to the game so BGG tells me when new stuff pops up) I was genuinely curious how they would end up delivering so I could decide if I wanted to check out future endeavors as I was not opposed to the company but their actions on this one game. In fact Unicast looks amazing. So I wanted to keep tabs.

While I won't deny some people clearly had vendettas against Prodos, I think the majority just wanted people to make informed decisions. It is very important in KS to know who/what you are backing to make good investments. When a company puts an NDA on their identity then they are bound to draw attention (especially when the minis looked so good). That said I will bow out here and unsubscribe from this game as I have my answer now. I am very impressed with how they handled the KS and the component quality but there seems to be a disconnect with what I and they view as acceptable. That is not a big deal it just means they are not for me.

EDIT: The 2 Rating might have been mine. I put it in late last night and was trying to find a way to put it in without a number. I have since figured out how to do this and fixed it to be just a comment.
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Stuart Holttum
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cadblur wrote:
After LOAD was successfully delivered I would have expected an apology from you lot. Because, you were very active "warning" backers and potential backers that they will not deliver. Well, they delivered a fun game with the best minis I have seen in a board game, and not only that, but they have run an exemplary campaign and costumer service before, during and after delivery of the games.....
You should know a lot of backers regret pulling out from LOAD and it was because of statements made by people like you....


Their first game was an absolute mess of lies and issues that has STILL not fully delivered, in some cases backers haven't even got the core game yet. That was the case when they launched this game. Regardless of how well they did this time, I see nothing to apologise for , for giving warnings at the time. Their history was on record, the warnings were valid and could be substantiated.

If there are backers who regret pulling out of LOAD, they regret it because - contrary to precedent - the company delivered (this time). If LOAD had ended up the same way as AvP, those backers would be very pleased they had pulled out.

So unless your point is "never judge anyone on what they have done before", I'm not sure what exactly there is to apologise for?

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Andrew Eyles
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Practically every kickstarter I have backed has pushed the "Go rate us on BGG plz!". All they are asking is that people who can actually rate the game because they have played it go and do it.

It's the problem with any internet based rating system. No way to police it. Any idiot with a stick can bash them stars. The problem being that a lot of people probably live and die by these ratings!!
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Stuart Holttum
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aces1973 wrote:
The problem being that a lot of people probably live and die by these ratings!!


Quite probably. But isn't that an argument to push for companies to do the right thing, rather than to try to sweep their messes under the carpet with a quick bit of renaming?

If someone is randomly skipping through BGG awarding 1s and 10s at random to any old game, then yeah - that's an issue. But where a company is STILL not delivering to backers of one game, why should they get a clear slate on another game that they had to change their name to have a chance of producing in the first place?

Let's be clear: if Prodos/Archon were showing a real desire to communicate with backers, to deliver product, or to admit their mistakes, then - maybe - I could be persuaded to give them a fresh chance. But what seems to have happened is that they tried desperately to scurry away from their previous mistakes by hiding their identity; went straight into a massive new mistake; and are now promoting their THIRD game while still ignoring and not fulfilling their first.....well, sorry, but ultimately a game company "lives and dies" by their actions.

Archon are reaping what they sowed, and I'm afraid I don't feel much compassion for a company that follows their business practices - no matter how shiny their latest toys may look.

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