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Citadels» Forums » General

Subject: No Ballroom? rss

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Rich Moore
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Can someone please confirm if the Ballroom purple district is absent in this edition? It is probably my favorite district from the first edition, and if it isn't in this edition, I may just have to pass.
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bruno faidutti
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We had to remove a few districts to make place for the new ones, and many players disliked the ballroom. So, indeed, it's not in the new edition.
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rcmoore4 wrote:
Can someone please confirm if the Ballroom purple district is absent in this edition? It is probably my favorite district from the first edition, and if it isn't in this edition, I may just have to pass.


If ballroom is the reason you're passing on this beautiful, more developed edition, then you must be looking for some other game. Are you also saying you didn't like all the times you played Citadels and no one built ballroom?
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Mike Beiter
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This saddens me greately. Just knowing that this card may be built excites me more than any other building.

Most of my fondest moments in Citadels revolve around this card.
So it definitely lessens the game a little for me, knowing it is not there.

If the game gets an expansion I would love to see the card return.
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Rich Moore
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Slashdoctor wrote:
rcmoore4 wrote:
Can someone please confirm if the Ballroom purple district is absent in this edition? It is probably my favorite district from the first edition, and if it isn't in this edition, I may just have to pass.


If ballroom is the reason you're passing on this beautiful, more developed edition, then you must be looking for some other game. Are you also saying you didn't like all the times you played Citadels and no one built ballroom?


Ballroom is ALWAYS in the deck...just the possibility of drawing it improves the game for me. As was said above, my most fond memories of this game stem from the time ballroom is played. Every time someone forgets to thank the king the table explodes into laughter...and this occurs more often than perhaps it should in my game group.

So yes, until Ballroom is released for this second edition I will play with my first edition.

"Thanks your Excellency!"
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If you use colored back sleeves, you could put Ballroom in the mix with the new edition.
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toober wrote:
If you use colored back sleeves, you could put Ballroom in the mix with the new edition.

Or print a copy and sleeve it with one of the districts from the current edition.

Or house rule that the Ballroom is always in play owned by all players.

Or give it to a random player at game start then pass it to whoever loses a turn due to it's effect (with the Ballroom not scoring at game end).
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This is by far the weirdest problem I've ever read about in boardgaming. You can have any kind of meta triggers for this to happen. If you REALLY like this mechanism, then this card drawing is certainly not the best way to implement it. Have dice rolls or do it with new Kings or whatever.

It just does not fit Citadels as a game. It is very much like something that is added to a game that is otherwise stale just to make it more interesting again.

If the game is not good for you WITHOUT Ballroom, then I don't see how Citadels itself could be a good game for you.

I strongly believe that the designer made a great decision in removing such a card. That card is not what Citadels is about.
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John
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Slashdoctor wrote:
If you REALLY like this mechanism, then this card drawing is certainly not the best way to implement it. Have dice rolls or do it with new Kings or whatever.

Sorry, what? The Ballroom is:

“When you have the Crown, all other players must say “Thanks, your Excellency,” after you have called his character. If a player forgets to address you in this way, he loses the turn.”

Citadels already has another mechanism for people losing a turn (the Assassin) and plenty of other characters that can make able to do very little on your turn (Magician, Witch, Thief, Blackmailer). I'm presuming it's "if you forget to say the right thing bad stuff happens to you" people like. I agree with you that I don't think that's what Citadels is about. Bruno described fan suggestions he received which change the game:

Quote:
Unfortunately, almost all of these submissions try to force the game in a different direction by making it more complex, more strategic, more convoluted, and reducing the luck and bluffing elements.


If you want one of more complex, strategic, lower luck game a bit like Citadels then something like San Juan (second edition) or Race for the Galaxy is probably what you want. Likewise if you want "if you forget to say the right thing bad stuff happens to you" then I'm sure there are game that do that better than Citadels (but I've no idea what they are as that's not really my thing).

Of course if you like the Ballroom in Citadels then make yourself a ballroom for the new version (or just play the old edition) and enjoy it and ignore those idiots on the internet who think it's a ridiculous card
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Carlos Soto Power
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rcmoore4 wrote:
Can someone please confirm if the Ballroom purple district is absent in this edition? It is probably my favorite district from the first edition, and if it isn't in this edition, I may just have to pass.


Seriously?? laugh

I'm on the other side of the fence: I wouldn't like to get this new edition if they wouldn't have removed that mess of a building.

To each his tastes I guess.
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Ray Chow
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Pretty much on the other side of the fence. Ballroom and Armory are always taken out of the deck whenever my friends and I play. So I wouldn't really care too much if it's in, I just would never play with it.
 
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NemesisCW wrote:
So I wouldn't really care too much if it's in, I just would never play with it.


Of course I just would remove it from the deck before playing. I just was talking sarcastically to highlight my dislike for that card laugh
 
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zabdiel wrote:
toober wrote:
If you use colored back sleeves, you could put Ballroom in the mix with the new edition.

Or print a copy and sleeve it with one of the districts from the current edition.

Or house rule that the Ballroom is always in play owned by all players.

Or give it to a random player at game start then pass it to whoever loses a turn due to it's effect (with the Ballroom not scoring at game end).


Just upgraded my Citadels with the new edition.

I was wondering how I'd like the new art. The districts, I find have a similar feel. So for this, I am very happy. Sometimes distant parts in the paintings fade to .... something. Loss for words. Sorry. Not out of amazement, well..., maybe... just can't pick out the right words. But, anyway. Similar feel, for me.

One example of what I am talking about is the Prison, distant images, not much detail. Also chose this image because myself & some friends were like wtf?!? to that card, in a dark humor type of way.
https://boardgamegeek.com/image/168004/citadels

The character card art. No problem. I'm glad there are more female characters. My count was 10 out of 27. For the time period the game is partly set in (partly in fantasy), pretty good. Partly that many of the characters are aristocracy types, so maybe many males. But, that may be predominantly that social class. Not all social classes necessarily adhere to same social oppressions, eh? I'm thinking of the Assassin. Unless maybe trying to dump a bit of poison in a drink, would an aristocrat sully their pretty hands with such low-brow labor as offing physically offing someone themselves? No. Hire some low class assassin to do the dirty work. So, there might be women doing various jobs thought of as just "male" by aristocrats. No need to ape such values, right? ha. Sorry for over-pseudo-analysis.

I decided to flip through the cards: Please don't have taken out the Ballroom. Please don't have taken out the ballroom. Hmm. Oh, well.
They above quote solves it all for me.

In our games, I've never seen the Ballroom yet built. We don't always put it in. But, since this one person ALWAYS takes the King (and finally gets assassinated much), we decided whenever playing with this person to always add it in.

AND
9 NEW CHARACTERS!!
Thanks Bruno! I always play this game with my nephews
& have been putting off upgrading for a while. Wanting a new game,
but I felt I HAD to get it out of the way.

Also,
I feel the tokens for the center of the table to keep track of which characters you are using in the game are a GREAT idea.
I loook forward to Time Well Spent with my nephews playing Citadels (& other games)
 
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I am very, very, very sad that the ballroom has been taken out. And yes, it is the only reason why I don't buy the new edition. Don't get me wrong, it is for sure a very nice upgrade, but not without ballroom (for me)

I was very surprissed that they did include all the missing stuff (like circus cards) in the German edition though! Would have made me happy, becaue that was another conern beforehand.

I understand the arguments above. Yes, ballroom doesn't perfectly fit into the other game mechanisms. And maybe, there are even other reasons that people don't like it. However, we always had fun with it, and it was built in many many games. It was a guarantor for laughs in our groups. And this is what gaming is about.

I cannot understand that it has been removed! Why no variant: take it in or take it out! Groups who don't like (or by default) don't use it! Other can shuffle it in, where was the problem? Both would be happy. With this decision, it simply cannot be used any more!

But hey, an idea, but I guess it's just a dream: why not offering the ballroom for the new edition as promo soon?
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Pasi Ojala
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geek_1 wrote:
But hey, an idea, but I guess it's just a dream: why not offering the ballroom for the new edition as promo soon?

How about this idea: Take any other building card and a pen. Use the pen to write Ballroom on the card. Issue solved.
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Or I could take some papers, write the name of all cards on them and play with paper!

No reason to get cocky here?!?
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geek_1 wrote:
Or I could take some papers, write the name of all cards on them and play with paper!

You could, if you prefer that.

You suggested solutions that require actions from Asmodee, I suggested another solution which only requires minimal effort from the owner of the game. If my solution isn't a suitable solution for you, that's fine and dandy, and you can just ignore it. Maybe it is a suitable solution for some other reader.

 
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Rich Moore
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a1bert wrote:
geek_1 wrote:
But hey, an idea, but I guess it's just a dream: why not offering the ballroom for the new edition as promo soon?

How about this idea: Take any other building card and a pen. Use the pen to write Ballroom on the card. Issue solved.


Yes this is a solution. It requires writing on another card which not every one would like to do. Other solutions involve sleeving cards and putting in a proxy printout (maybe a bit betters or some of us who don't like to deface our components). All these suggestions are what you could call the proxy solution,

But for many of us it's just not the same! Having the actual card printed by Asmodee is the only solution that would make us happy. Plus there are the abandonment issues we suffer from because the designer chose to leave our favorite card out of the revision.

And it's all about making us happy isn't it? (Being sarcastic here by the way...first world problems and all that)
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MajaiofDreams wrote:
This saddens me greately. Just knowing that this card may be built excites me more than any other building.

Most of my fondest moments in Citadels revolve around this card.
So it definitely lessens the game a little for me, knowing it is not there.

If the game gets an expansion I would love to see the card return.


So true. I think we're going to houserule that the Ballroom is always in play. It's just a rediculously fun mechanic. Alternatively it would be cool to have a few optional things claimable by the crown. I can't think of any now, but each game we could choose an effect that the crown has at all times, as if they had the ballroom. I would actually prefer that to a singular building.

It's not so much the anticipation of it being built that got me, but the hilarious reactions to it. So until we have some other mechanisms, the game will require proper etiquette to being called or your turn is missed.
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That seems like an excellent solution if everyone in your group likes the ballroom. If you come up with some other ideas then please create a variant thread as I'm sure other people would like to hear about them.
 
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Mike Beiter
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Brilliant Idea!

House rule that the Ballroom is ALWAYS in effect!
 
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I actually don't like the idea. It would deaden the fun much too quickly. It would get boring soon and what remains are players who are annoyed from that. The fun results from the fact that the king is changing and people forget (sometimes).

Therefore this is no solution, which would make the card obsolete for me.

If the king could choose from a couple of optional things would be interesting though. A real "king ability". This would reduce the effect described above. Imagine that the ballroom effect is one option, but another one (besides some others, of course) is the opposite. You are NOT allowed to response or address the king... his "unapproachable majesty".

Yes, again... I know that it is not the nature of this game, but it would be fun
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A best option would be coming up with 9 crown effects and deal them out each game. One gets the ballroom, another the no response version...

Then as the crown changes there are things to watch for.
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I'm a completionist.

I got the original game plus Dark Cities.
I then bought the 2012 re-release from Hans-Im-Glück just for the new Circus action cards. Of course that required to buy the Dark Cities expansions again, as the old cards are already worn off.

With the new 2016 edition, I was pleasantly surprised to find that the German Hans-Im-Glück edition not only contains the Circus action cards (this time with proper rules for the Dark City expansion), but also kept almost all of the removed purple districts.

So apparently, for Hans-Im-Glück there were no space issues with the new purple districts.
I would really, really love to see the Ballroom coming back as a promo card.

House ruling permanent effects doesn't do it justice, because the crown often moves every round, and the Ballroom card itself can be swapped.
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Damon Asher
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I understand why this card was cut, but I do have to say it is the thing I most miss from the original edition. If there was ever a good candidate for a promo card, this is it!
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