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Conan» Forums » General

Subject: KS Update 184: v2 English Heroes' book has landed! rss

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Stephan Beal
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By Crom, the v2 English rulebook has arrived:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/806316071/conan/posts/1...

(i haven't yet read it, so no comment on its contents.)

The revised OL book is still pending. (Ostensibly scheduled for "end of next week", but we know how that goes!)


Edit: the PDF uses proper text, instead of storing each page as a separate image! This means that we can finally perform searches through it and copy/paste text from it :-D. i'm digging the more readable font and the two-column layout (though i generally tend to prefer single-column).
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Stephan Beal
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Also: "... There will be no other game elements reprinted."

i.e. Monolith won't be reprinting any of the following:

- add-on tiles which misprint the Shield where they should have a Helm.

- skill reference cards (with their numerous translation errors). Instead: "Clarification on skills will be provided at the end of the revised rules."

- spell cards (despite numerous translation errors). :/
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Conan Meriadoc
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There's a section on Line of Sight in the new (FR) Overlord rulebook, after the scenarios ("Precisions on the map boards").

It clarifies for good a few things :
- For the Ships map, there's always line of sight to the mast zones, even if they should normally block LOS
- For the Pict Village map, the bushes DO NOT block line of sight, which clarifies a much debated issue.

There's no reason to try and find a justification now on why a ballista doesn't block LOS when a bush would
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Vince De Zutter
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sgbeal wrote:
Also: "... There will be no other game elements reprinted."

i.e. Monolith won't be reprinting any of the following:

- add-on tiles which misprint the Shield where they should have a Helm.

- skill reference cards (with their numerous translation errors). Instead: "Clarification on skills will be provided at the end of the revised rules."

- spell cards (despite numerous translation errors). :/


Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer. Also no word of their "guide for swapping heroes" or "guidelines for creating own scenarios". And without either of those two things, the game has a very, very limited life span.
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Sam Sanchez
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Vinceness wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Also: "... There will be no other game elements reprinted."

i.e. Monolith won't be reprinting any of the following:

- add-on tiles which misprint the Shield where they should have a Helm.

- skill reference cards (with their numerous translation errors). Instead: "Clarification on skills will be provided at the end of the revised rules."

- spell cards (despite numerous translation errors). :/


Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer. Also no word of their "guide for swapping heroes" or "guidelines for creating own scenarios". And without either of those two things, the game has a very, very limited life span.


I honestly didn't expect them to reprint all those tokens and cards since really since everything is playable as long as a FAQ is provided. This is something to fix in a version 2 though.

However the armour vs shield icon is something I will simply print on sticker paper and fix myself as I find it less confusing for new players.

My biggest concern is the guidelines or recommendations for alternate heroes in scenarios that's really the biggest feedback right now other than lack of scenarios.
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Vince De Zutter
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Gungo wrote:
I honestly didn't expect them to reprint all those tokens and cards since really since everything is playable as long as a FAQ is provided. This is something to fix in a version 2 though.

However the armour vs shield icon is something I will simply print on sticker paper and fix myself as I find it less confusing for new players.

My biggest concern is the guidelines or recommendations for alternate heroes in scenarios that's really the biggest feedback right now other than lack of scenarios.


Well, the biggest problem right now is that it seems like the revised English rulebook is, well, a translation of the French revised rulebook. While this might sound logical, it also means that translation errors outside of the rulebook will not be corrected, so certain rules will still cause a lot of confusion.

Simple example is the Teleportation spell. An errata was provided in the revised rulebook, but not the translation error. The French spell card says perfectly fine you pay one gem per zone in addition to the activation cost, the English doesn't. And this should've really been added to the revised rulebook as well.
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Conan Meriadoc
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Vinceness wrote:
Simple example is the Teleportation spell. An errata was provided in the revised rulebook, but not the translation error. The French spell card says perfectly fine you pay one gem per zone in addition to the activation cost, the English doesn't. And this should've really been added to the revised rulebook as well.

To be honest, this could be released in a separate FAQ/Errata document, it doesn't necessarily need to be part of the rulebook. A lot of publishers do this. It *has* to be officially published one way or another, though.
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David Diaz
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Also, where is the HD version of the new rulebook? Did they just uploaded a low res version?

When they released the last update they french pdf came with a HD version with bleed guides to print...
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Alex Thomson
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And on the glass half-full side...

The new rulebook is a massive improvement. Yes, it should have been there in the first place, but kudos to Monolith, they have stuck with it and the new version will be shipped out to backers free of charge apparently. I'd still like to see the full skill text in the back of the book, not just clarifications, mind, but compared to many rulebooks, this is a good one.

They have confirmed there are new scenarios coming to the website, to use the add-on content. First batch due this month apparently, which is quite exciting! I was starting to wonder if I'd have to make up my own scenarios to use that forest demon, but maybe not...

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Charlie Theel
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Vinceness wrote:
sgbeal wrote:
Also: "... There will be no other game elements reprinted."

i.e. Monolith won't be reprinting any of the following:

- add-on tiles which misprint the Shield where they should have a Helm.

- skill reference cards (with their numerous translation errors). Instead: "Clarification on skills will be provided at the end of the revised rules."

- spell cards (despite numerous translation errors). :/


Yeah, that's a bit of a bummer. Also no word of their "guide for swapping heroes" or "guidelines for creating own scenarios". And without either of those two things, the game has a very, very limited life span.


If we never get a guide for swapping out heroes I don't see the game as having a limited lifespan. As long as those heroes are used in scenarios I'm fine with that.

I've played dozens of games of Claustrophobia despite the game not allowing me to swap abilities or units in.
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Ukko Kaarto
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Dystopian wrote:
There's a section on Line of Sight in the new (FR) Overlord rulebook, after the scenarios ("Precisions on the map boards").

It clarifies for good a few things :
- For the Ships map, there's always line of sight to the mast zones, even if they should normally block LOS
- For the Pict Village map, the bushes DO NOT block line of sight, which clarifies a much debated issue.

There's no reason to try and find a justification now on why a ballista doesn't block LOS when a bush would


A step towards right direction. I'm still REALLY hoping they would provide LOS guides for all the maps. I'm still wondering which parts of ships masts block LOS (only the "stick", or that square base too)? Also is the blocking part the actual printed graphic or where the base of the "stick" is supposed to be (since the graphic is not straight from the top.

It would just makes things a lot clearer and nicer to play.
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Stephan Beal
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Okay, i read most the book on the way home in the train and...

i have yet to see any substantive changes. i.e. no rules are any clearer to me now than they were before. Yes, i like the new layout and font, and that the text is now searchable and clipboardable. No, i didn't learn/clarify anything new from the updated text.

My issues with the rules have always been primarily in the mistranslations of the skills, and the v2 book does not do a substantially better job of clarifying those in the new book. e.g. the English edition of Wall Wrecker still has one of the the mistakes which the printed skill card has:

Quote:
Wall Wrecker: When a character uses this skill, they spend movement points and place the "Wall Wrecker" token on the board to indicate the opening they created. Then they immediately move to the other side of the wall they just wrecked. From now on, the two areas are adjacent and there is no penalty for moving from one to the other. The two areas also have line of sight on each other. Stone walls cannot be wrecked.


"... they spend movement points" - but how many!?!? It has long since been clarified, in multiple forums, that "two additional movement points" is the intent, compared to the "two movement points" printed on the skill card. And yet this addenda in the v2 book fails to mention that. Grrrrr. At least they mention the stone wall limitation.
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Dave Thomas
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sgbeal wrote:
the v2 book does not do a substantially better job of clarifying those in the new book.


Well that's irritating - i mean after you've gone to all the effort and all, why stop short?
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C B
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sgbeal wrote:
Okay, i read most the book on the way home in the train and...

i have yet to see any substantive changes. i.e. no rules are any clearer to me now than they were before. Yes, i like the new layout and font, and that the text is now searchable and clipboardable. No, i didn't learn/clarify anything new from the updated text.

My issues with the rules have always been primarily in the mistranslations of the skills, and the v2 book does not do a substantially better job of clarifying those in the new book. e.g. the English edition of Wall Wrecker still has one of the the mistakes which the printed skill card has:

Quote:
Wall Wrecker: When a character uses this skill, they spend movement points and place the "Wall Wrecker" token on the board to indicate the opening they created. Then they immediately move to the other side of the wall they just wrecked. From now on, the two areas are adjacent and there is no penalty for moving from one to the other. The two areas also have line of sight on each other. Stone walls cannot be wrecked.


"... they spend movement points" - but how many!?!? It has long since been clarified, in multiple forums, that "two additional movement points" is the intent, compared to the "two movement points" printed on the skill card. And yet this addenda in the v2 book fails to mention that. Grrrrr. At least they mention the stone wall limitation.

Do you suppose Monolith has sent it to the printers yet?
I guess people need to write in and tell them they're making the same mistake again.
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Þráinn Gunnlaugur Þorsteinsson
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Yeah, I was also flabbergasted over that Wallwrecker "clarification". How many movement points maaan, that was the original problem with the wall wrecker skill on the english skill cards..


Also two errors I noticed:

-word "regroup" should be replaced with "group" on page 2.

-Shevata's name in the character sheet font is misplaced vertically over the game example box on page 9.

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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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thrainn wrote:
How many movement points maaan, that was the original problem with the wall wrecker skill on the english skill cards..

Skill cards say 2pts. It's indeed 2 extra/more/additionnal/younameit movement points. I'll try to pass the info to the team.

thrainn wrote:
word "regroup" should be replaced with "group" on page 2.

Okaaay.

thrainn wrote:
Shevata's name in the character sheet font is misplaced vertically over the game example box on page 9.

Looks totally fine to me. Probably an issue with your browser plugin. Download the file and open it with your usual pdf reader.
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anthony
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I agree with Mr. Beal; huge improvement in layout but does nothing much to clarify anything (even the 'skill clarifications' are not really clarifications at all).

Some observations:

1. Still uses the language "Guard and Reroll" in cautious stance. Though it does clarify what you cannot use now and skill use can be worked out from it, but it would be nice to mention it (perhapse needs a separate skill section in the rulebook to clarify how they are used in a more general sense).

2. LoS rules are still vague (though as has been mentioned, the OL book will clear one or two of these up). Still needs to a bit less vague in rules while still being general (a diagram would go a long way).

3. Elevation and LoS now seems to be different? What does it mean when it talks about only the higher area having LoS on the lower? Does that mean (for example) that someone in the courtyard of the Ruined Fort board cannot draw LoS to the walls?
Was this always there and I totally missed it??

4. You cannot drop an explosive orb item once you pick it up.

5. Dont have to equip cards from chests; you can leave them in the area.

6. Still no rules on how to use explosive orb because it is the only thing in the game where the attack roll is not the damage roll (it breaks the basic rules) - if they split the throwing and catching into 2 box-outs and mentioned the orb in the throwing (as it does in the dropping) it would make more clear.

7. Skill clarifications only clarify 3 points (stone walls for Wall Wrecker, Bodyguard and sort of Teleport movement).

That is what I got from 1 reading and I might have missed a few things.

 
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Walter Melnyk
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Geez, to me the biggest change was in basic movement - spelling out that your heroes get to do basic movement without any cost in gems at all - that's a pretty big update.

While not perfect, it is a marked improvement.

We'll see what they do with the Overlord's book.
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Stephan Beal
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vlad48 wrote:
Geez, to me the biggest change was in basic movement - spelling out that your heroes get to do basic movement without any cost in gems at all - that's a pretty big update.


It is spelled precisely in the v1 book, but that book chose a wording which arguably appeals mainly to programmers and similarly semantics-pedantic folk:

Quote:
Once per Action phase, a hero can gain a number of movement points equal to their movement value if the hero has not yet performed a Move during that phase. When a hero performs an action other than a Move each turn, the hero loses all of their movement points. The hero can still perform a Move to gain movement points that turn.


(Now that we can copy/paste text from the v2 book, i am SO not going to miss having to re-type rules from the v1 book!)
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J P
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sgbeal wrote:
vlad48 wrote:
Geez, to me the biggest change was in basic movement - spelling out that your heroes get to do basic movement without any cost in gems at all - that's a pretty big update.


It is spelled precisely in the v1 book, but that book chose a wording which arguably appeals mainly to programmers and similarly semantics-pedantic folk:

Quote:
Once per Action phase, a hero can gain a number of movement points equal to their movement value if the hero has not yet performed a Move during that phase. When a hero performs an action other than a Move each turn, the hero loses all of their movement points. The hero can still perform a Move to gain movement points that turn.


(Now that we can copy/paste text from the v2 book, i am SO not going to miss having to re-type rules from the v1 book!)


The v1 rulebook did have the problem where it made it sound as if you needed to spend your free movement points as your first action or else they were lost. Asmodee made that mistake in one of their articles and I still see YouTube videos where people don't get it right. Now, they've clarified that you can do other things, like attack, first and not lose your free movement points. Although, it is still kinda clunky the way it's written.
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Stephan Beal
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DancingFool wrote:
The v1 rulebook did have the problem where it made it sound as if you needed to spend your free movement points as your first action or else they were lost.


Not to programmers and those with similarly pedantic senses of semantics . (i always appreciated the conciseness and precision of the v1 movement wording!)

In any case, yes, it did cause an undue amount of confusion, so an improvement was in order. OTOH, they now require roughly three times the verbiage to say the same thing:

Quote:
All characters have a base movement value 1 . At the start of
the Action phase, an aggressive hero gains a number of
movement points equal to their base movement value. These
movement points are free; they do not require the hero to
assign gems to the Move action. As a result, the first movement
points a character spends are the movement points gained
thanks to their base movement value.

Each turn, when a hero stops moving to perform an action
other than a Move, the hero loses all of their remaining
movement points. However, the hero can still perform a Move
action to gain movement points that turn.

To perform the Move action, the hero assigns one or more
gems from their Reserve zone to their Move space. For each
assigned gem, the hero gains 1 movement point that must be
spent immediately.


Oh, well. Better that than further confusion and consternation.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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CardboardAnt wrote:
3. Elevation and LoS now seems to be different? What does it mean when it talks about only the higher area having LoS on the lower? Does that mean (for example) that someone in the courtyard of the Ruined Fort board cannot draw LoS to the walls?
Was this always there and I totally missed it??

I believe it's a typo.
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anthony
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Interesting.
What do you think it should say (and is it any different in French?)

Quote:

As a general rule, in the case of an abrupt change in elevation, only the higher areas have line of sight on the lower areas.
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James
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Roolz wrote:
CardboardAnt wrote:
3. Elevation and LoS now seems to be different? What does it mean when it talks about only the higher area having LoS on the lower? Does that mean (for example) that someone in the courtyard of the Ruined Fort board cannot draw LoS to the walls?
Was this always there and I totally missed it??

I believe it's a typo.

This jumped out at me, too. It reads as very unclear as to what was the rule before regarding who could see each other. It's hard to believe that this is the THIRD iteration of the rules released for a pretty simple game and it still has these clear problems. This combined with the short remark about no additional components being printed to fix the card errors makes me sad. I was disappointed to hear the add-on scenarios will be not be printed but only uploaded to the web site. At least they are sending out new printed versions of the rulebooks; that's something...but they have lost a lot of good will from the backers.
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Ze Masqued Cucumber
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CardboardAnt wrote:
Interesting.
What do you think it should say (and is it any different in French?)

This should say:
"As a general rule, in the case of an abrupt change in elevation, only adjacent higher and lower areas have line of sight to each other."
Or something like that.
It was explicit in the 1st version of the EN rules, and still is in all versions of the FR rules, including the last one (unless I have a reading problem). So I believe it's a typo.
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