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Subject: So will this be like Flash Point, but in a forest? rss

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Jonathan Starr
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The obvious comparison here is flash point: fire rescue. It's co-operative game, where you're fighting fires--there aren't many other games out there like it. However, based off of what little we know at this point, how close or different to Flash Point do you think this will be?

From what I gather of the pictures and info, I can at least see a bit of difference.

I love Flash Point, but Hotshots may improve upon what I feel is a weakness of Flash Point for me, and that's how the fire spreads. In Flash Point there's no thematic sense, it just appears at the other side of the building for no reason. However in this game it seems like they mention winds moving the fire? They also mention making firebreaks, which I assume is a place where everything is burnt/cut down so no fire can pass it. So at the very least, there seems to be a thematic reason and way the fire spreads or is controlled.

The only other info is putting out the fire. They describe putting out the fire by matching symbols, and it seems to be like that in the pictures as well. So perhaps you have to roll, and depending on how many dice match the tile, it determines how much fire you put out? Hmm, not sure how I feel about this.

A random thought, I wonder if there will be water bombers in the game? From the back of the box it doesn't look like it, but maybe an expansion? Feels like a vital role to fighting forest fires.

I'll be curious to know how the game works as more info is released. I'd like something a bit new compared to Flash Point, as fun as it is.
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Jimmy Trinket
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I just had a look at the Fireside website, where there is more information on Hotshots. It looks really good. And to answer your random thought, it looks like there are water-bombers, if you mean air tankers and helicopters.

Really looking forward to seeing more of this game, and perhaps a review or two.
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Jonathan Starr
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Hmm you're right:

http://firesidegames.com/games/hotshots/

Looks like they have 3 vehicle tokens. Yeah I know them as water bombers (the plane).

Okay so it seems like you need to match at least 3 of the 6 symbols when you roll, or else the fire spreads instead of putting it out. Interesting concept.
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Rivendell
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This does look cool, and is on my wishlist now. There's also the solo Smokejumpers which has a lot of realism to it, especially in fire spread.
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Ryan Mayes
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davekuhns wrote:
This does look cool, and is on my wishlist now. There's also the solo Smokejumpers which has a lot of realism to it, especially in fire spread.

It's now on my wishlist too.

And you know what? I really want to make a Planes: Fire & Rescue retheme.
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Ryan
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They need to change the "Spotter" role to "Lookout".

Spotters are used in Smokejumping aircraft. The role the "Spotter" looks to be filling is that of a "Lookout".

Just sayin'.

Also swampers directly support sawyers (chainsaw operators) by moving the brush and logs that sawyers cut. They can do some line digging too when appropriate. But the game art makes me wonder if the swampers will act more as line diggers in this game.
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Patrick Newman
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This looks like a fun game!

I have Flash Point with all the expansions, although I haven't had a chance to play all of them yet. As soon as I saw this pop up on my radar, I knew it would go on my wishlist. It would definitely make an interesting change of pace from structure fires.

Ironically, I was a volunteer firefighter in Colorado for a few years. Structure fires, at least to me, were much less work. I dreaded getting called to a wildland fire due to the sheer drudgery I knew would be involved.

I'm looking forward to playing Hotshots when it's available.
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Chance Rushing
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JonathanStarr wrote:


I love Flash Point, but Hotshots may improve upon what I feel is a weakness of Flash Point for me, and that's how the fire spreads. In Flash Point there's no thematic sense, it just appears at the other side of the building for no reason.


Flashpoint makes plenty of sense if you understand how fire can spread inside of walls, attics and dead spaces in homes to "randomly appear" in a new area when its really not random. This is why firefighters still can get caught out and injured in building fires with random collapses and such, fire spread isn't logical until you know what hidden areas its in.


Hotshots is looking interesting changing it up to working wildfires instead of structure fires. I'm waiting to hear more reports on this to see how game play stands up, I really like firefighting themes.
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SGT Dave
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Hotshots should give you a little more of a Forbidden Island feel, but with a dice element. It will begin feeling too easy, with the second half of the game growing more and more intense.

JonathanStarr wrote:
The obvious comparison here is flash point: fire rescue. It's co-operative game, where you're fighting fires--there aren't many other games out there like it. However, based off of what little we know at this point, how close or different to Flash Point do you think this will be?

From what I gather of the pictures and info, I can at least see a bit of difference.

I love Flash Point, but Hotshots may improve upon what I feel is a weakness of Flash Point for me, and that's how the fire spreads. In Flash Point there's no thematic sense, it just appears at the other side of the building for no reason. However in this game it seems like they mention winds moving the fire? They also mention making firebreaks, which I assume is a place where everything is burnt/cut down so no fire can pass it. So at the very least, there seems to be a thematic reason and way the fire spreads or is controlled.

The only other info is putting out the fire. They describe putting out the fire by matching symbols, and it seems to be like that in the pictures as well. So perhaps you have to roll, and depending on how many dice match the tile, it determines how much fire you put out? Hmm, not sure how I feel about this.

A random thought, I wonder if there will be water bombers in the game? From the back of the box it doesn't look like it, but maybe an expansion? Feels like a vital role to fighting forest fires.

I'll be curious to know how the game works as more info is released. I'd like something a bit new compared to Flash Point, as fun as it is.
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Jim Dunaway
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clearush wrote:
JonathanStarr wrote:


I love Flash Point, but Hotshots may improve upon what I feel is a weakness of Flash Point for me, and that's how the fire spreads. In Flash Point there's no thematic sense, it just appears at the other side of the building for no reason.


Flashpoint makes plenty of sense if you understand how fire can spread inside of walls, attics and dead spaces in homes to "randomly appear" in a new area when its really not random. This is why firefighters still can get caught out and injured in building fires with random collapses and such, fire spread isn't logical until you know what hidden areas its in.


Hotshots is looking interesting changing it up to working wildfires instead of structure fires. I'm waiting to hear more reports on this to see how game play stands up, I really like firefighting themes.


Having just returned from GenCon after running several different demos of Hotshots, I can answer all those questions.

To begin with, the board is made up of 19 hex-shaped terrain tiles which can be laid out however you want or shuffling them and placing them. I usually place them face down then flip them over once I've place them all.

Each terrain tile has a scorch value. If the number of flame tokens meets or exceeds the scorch value, the terrain tile is turned over and the fire spreads. 6 of the terrain tiles start out with flame tokens already on them.

Each terrain tile shows 6 dice with different faces. By rolling the die you try to match as many symbols as you can. if you match 3, you get to place a firebreak on any edge of the terrain tile you are currently on. If you match 4, you get to remove a flame token from the terrain tile you're on. If you match 5, you get to remove 2 flame tokens from the terrain tile you're on and get either a reward token or a firebreak. If you match all 6, you get to remove 3 flame tokens from the terrain tile you're on, get a reward token and a firebreak.

At the end of each player's turn they will draw a card from the fire deck which will indicate how the fire will spread.

There are 3 special tokens that can be used once per game. The brush truck token allows you to place 3 firebreaks in a line anywhere on the board you wish. The helicopter token allows you to remove up to 3 flame tokens from one terrain tile. The plane allows you to remove 1 token from 3 terrain tiles in a straight line. You will move along with these vehicles.

Each of the 4 crew members (Crew Boss, Sawyer, Swamper and Spotter) have a special ability and a tile with their symbol on it. Should the tile with they symbol on it get scorched, the crew member loses their special ability. There's also a supply depot which, if scorched, causes you to discard all unused reward tokens.

Unlike Flash Point, Hotshots can be played solo.

This is a basic overview of the rules. The full rulebook can be downloaded from the files section.

If the response at GenCon is any indication, Hotshots is going to be one of the biggest hits of the year. I had players literally get up from the table, buy a pre-release copy and go back to the table to continue the demo. By the last day of GenCon the entire stock of pre-release copies was sold out.

Hotshots will hit the stores on Sept 6, so let your FLGS know.

BTW, I am NOT an employee of Fireside Games, but a member of the Double Exposure (www.dexposure.com) Envoy program. I was in no way compensated for this posting.
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benjamin croswell
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I just played this at Fireaide's Crash.amd Burn tour in Dublin ohio. It was a lot of fun. It has a Forbidden Island, Flashpoint feel with press your luck dice rolling thrown in.
It will definitely be a buy whem it comes out next week.
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What I don't like about Fire Rescue was the dice rolling. If you win or lose heavily depends on rolling a dice?

At least in a forest it would be more realistic because the sparks are carried by the wind and therefore a new fire can start somewhere else.
 
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Dave B.
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I picked this up today and had a chance to play it both solo, and with my dad. It's really good. It's got some elements reminiscent of Pandemic and Elder Sign (the symbol matching with dice), but doesn't feel at all like a clone of either game. The mechanics fit the theme perfectly.
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Will

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The progression of the fire is much more realistic in Hotshots.
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Chance Rushing
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Broadstorm wrote:
The progression of the fire is much more realistic in Hotshots.


How so??
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Will

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clearush wrote:
Broadstorm wrote:
The progression of the fire is much more realistic in Hotshots.


How so??


In Flash Point: Fire Rescue, fire simply appears randomly based on the dice & keeps reappearing because of dice rolls. Also, a room can fill up with smoke coming from the fire without necessarily spreading the fire, but in FP:FR, smoke adjacent to fire automatically turns into flames. I've been in burning buildings moving through smoke that extended out from the fire, not smoke that appeared on its own & ignited by coming in contact with fire.

In Hotshots, wind is the cause of the spread with most spread happening in hexes adjacent to those already burning with the occasional hex specific cards which still basically rely on without the the idea that burning embers can be picked up by wind & spread the fires. Forest fires spread & change direction with wind & can even jump interstate highways with wind carrying burning materials so those hex specific tiles aren't so bad.
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Chance Rushing
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Flashover is a thing that happens in Structure fires, all that stuff you described is very much real life situations for real Firefighters.

smoke=heat and temps in excess of 600degrees can combust some materials and even more so with a live flame near by.

https://www.firefightingincanada.com/structural/trainers-cor...

Quote:
■ Fire spread
Fire and smoke spread by convection is the most dangerous and causes a large proportion of injuries and deaths. When fire starts in an enclosed space such as a building, the smoke and heat rising from the fire becomes trapped by the ceiling and then spreads in all directions to an ever-deepening layer in the entire space. This ever-increasing superheated thermal layer will eventually cause everything in that compartment to burst into flame (flashover). Do not be fooled into thinking this is a long, drawn-out process. Flashover can happen within three minutes.


Quote:
■ Type III construction
The major recurring fire spread problem of Type III construction is concealed spaces and poke-through holes. Concealed spaces are created by wood studs, floor joists and suspended ceilings. Poke-through holes are created by small openings for utilities. These small openings around pipes and wires allow fire to spread into concealed spaces. Flames can spread vertically several stories or horizontally to adjoining spaces. When firefighters search for hidden fire in this type of building they should try to cut off the rising fire. For example, if they discover fire in a floor, open up the wall above it. If they discover fire in a wall, open up the ceiling. If they discover fire in a ceiling, open up the baseboards on the floor above. By doing this, convection currents of flame and heat can be cut off and revealed so they can be extinguished.




Sounds totally different than FP:FR since its a completely situation from structure fires, which is good, since I can have it along side my FP:FR set and get a different experience.


How does Hotshots handle airborne embers and jumping hexs to start secondary fires, is there a rush mechanic that makes the fire line move faster through multiple hexs (we deal with that here in the panhandle and grass/brush fires the wind can kill with how fast the fireline moves and spreads new fires)

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Jonathan Starr
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I get that flashpoint's progression of fire is based off of real instances. However flashovers, from my understanding, happen when the whole room is filled up with smoke and heat. No? In Flashpoint, it doesn't, it's more of a random occurrence. It could just be one spot has smoke, or one spot has fire, and then an explosion/flashover.

Also, these two situations described, are situations that firefighters can anticipate and train for. I've seen videos of firefighters training for flashovers. Sure sometimes it could catch them by surprise irl, but in flashpoint there's no way to really anticipate or prepare for it in any way, other than putting out all the smoke, which is a feat. It really is just always random. No natural progression that can be anticipated because it's all based off of rolling dice.

IRL even your quote says:

"For example, if they discover fire in a floor, open up the wall above it. If they discover fire in a wall, open up the ceiling. If they discover fire in a ceiling, open up the baseboards on the floor above. By doing this, convection currents of flame and heat can be cut off and revealed so they can be extinguished."

So yes, flashpoint is based off of real life, but it still comes off as being too random compared to it, in a way you can never anticipate. Ideally if flashpoint is more realistic, some of the fire progression should just be through heat transference, such as "there's a lot of fire here, add a fire token next to it." Or "There's a fire, add smoke next to it." Rather than always rolling a dice to see where it goes.

But then again, I'm not a firefighter. *shrugs*
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clearush wrote:
Flashover is a thing that happens in Structure fires, all that stuff you described is very much real life situations for real Firefighters.

smoke=heat and temps in excess of 600degrees can combust some materials and even more so with a live flame near by.

https://www.firefightingincanada.com/structural/trainers-cor...

Quote:
■ Fire spread
Fire and smoke spread by convection is the most dangerous and causes a large proportion of injuries and deaths. When fire starts in an enclosed space such as a building, the smoke and heat rising from the fire becomes trapped by the ceiling and then spreads in all directions to an ever-deepening layer in the entire space. This ever-increasing superheated thermal layer will eventually cause everything in that compartment to burst into flame (flashover). Do not be fooled into thinking this is a long, drawn-out process. Flashover can happen within three minutes.


Quote:
■ Type III construction
The major recurring fire spread problem of Type III construction is concealed spaces and poke-through holes. Concealed spaces are created by wood studs, floor joists and suspended ceilings. Poke-through holes are created by small openings for utilities. These small openings around pipes and wires allow fire to spread into concealed spaces. Flames can spread vertically several stories or horizontally to adjoining spaces. When firefighters search for hidden fire in this type of building they should try to cut off the rising fire. For example, if they discover fire in a floor, open up the wall above it. If they discover fire in a wall, open up the ceiling. If they discover fire in a ceiling, open up the baseboards on the floor above. By doing this, convection currents of flame and heat can be cut off and revealed so they can be extinguished.




Sounds totally different than FP:FR since its a completely situation from structure fires, which is good, since I can have it along side my FP:FR set and get a different experience.


How does Hotshots handle airborne embers and jumping hexs to start secondary fires, is there a rush mechanic that makes the fire line move faster through multiple hexs (we deal with that here in the panhandle and grass/brush fires the wind can kill with how fast the fireline moves and spreads new fires)



The Fire Cards deck handles both of these occurrences. There are cards that show a tiles with embers above them. When these are drawn, a Flame token is placed on the matching tile, possibly causing the tile to scorch.

There are cards in the Fire Cards deck which will add Flame tokens to specific tiles based on the tile's scorch value.

Other cards change wind speed and direction. There are two types of breeze cards, Light Breeze and Strong Breeze on the Wind cards. Light Breeze cards will spread fire in the current direction, but will be blocked by Firebreaks. Strong Breeze cards will also spread fire in the current wind direction, but in this case fire will not be blocked by Firebreaks.
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Dave B.
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And don't forget the tile with a big propane tank. That one can make the situation get out of hand real fast if it goes up. (It can also be a very strategic burn depending on board layout.)
 
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