Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
5 Posts

Archipelago» Forums » General

Subject: Some problems with the game balance? rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Peter Shafer
United States
Hedgies Hang
flag msg tools
designer
"It is a pity we so often succeed in our endeavors to deceive each other." -Empress Irene
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Hi,

Played this game quite a few times and have seen a strategy where the first player (with a Queen card, for example) begins to seriously dominate the game, so I am wondering if my group is missing something to the rules:

First player buys a development (evolution- forget name) card. Triggers a red emergency situation. First player spends all the resources to handle it from the domestic market- since this is a Benefactor trend game (that's the card that was pulled at game start) he decides to use his own resources- another player buys a dev. card. So the first player again spends his resources and pulls so far ahead on that VP score that it is hopeless for the other players. This happens for four or five rounds.

First player usually gets back 2 or 4 coin discount on his bid as people jockey to not be last... (4-5 players games).

Wondering- is it the best rule that the first player (and not a rotating player like the person buying the card) gets to respond with the domestic market resources or their own resources each time. Their meeples are in such a plumb spot round after round, it sort of builds up a head of steam that is hard to fight.

BTW- not whinging here- I was that first player in quite a few games and people are getting a little frustrated. Want to hold on my friends.

I like the game but this relationship between mechanisms of the rules seems to lead to a struggle for the other players that is almost insurmountable, especially with the Queen's support.

For me requiring an entire table of other players to gang up on a leader seems to defeat the purpose of this game's otherwise carefully crafted balances.

What am I missing?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Radosław Michalak
Poland
Bytom
flag msg tools
Gaming is for having fun. Fun requires clear rules.
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Quote:
First player spends all the resources to handle it from the domestic market- since this is a Benefactor trend game (that's the card that was pulled at game start) he decides to use his own resources- another player buys a dev. card. So the first player again spends his resources and pulls so far ahead on that VP score that it is hopeless for the other players. This happens for four or five rounds.

I'm not sure here.
1. Do you remember that you benefit from Benefactor only if you spend your own resources, not from domestic market?
2. Even if you are a leader on Benefactor, you only get 4VPs. The second and 3rd player still gets 3 and 2 VPs, no matter what the gap is.
3. Your group may be overestimating the importance of turn order. In many cases it may not be really worth to pay for anything else than 1st place.
4. If the 1st player keeps spending his own resources to go ahead on Benefactor, he may lose many points from other players' scoring cards.
Quote:
Their meeples are in such a plumb spot round after round, it sort of builds up a head of steam that is hard to fight.

I don't understand you here.
6 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike B
Canada
Whitby
Ontario
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Radziol wrote:

3. Your group may be overestimating the importance of turn order. In many cases it may not be really worth to pay for anything else than 1st place.


I will agree with this. It is usually only worthwhile to bid/bribe for turn order if there is something specific that you want, like a specific card.

Or, it can be beneficial to bid for turn order if you are trying to lock out another player from something. For example, I may bribe the winner of the bids to go ahead of another player just so I can harvest from the only pineapple tile that's showing before he can. In that instance, I don't need to bid a lot to go first, but I do need to bribe a small amount to not go last.

It can also be worthwhile to go last if you are the separatist, since it is easier to tank the game so you can win.

But aside from those instances, there probably isn't a real reason to bid high every turn just to go first.

And I'll also agree with Radoslaw that if the benefactor is spending all their resources locking down that win condition, it creates an opportunity to beat them out on the other victory conditions since they should be short on resources.
3 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Jonathan Challis
United Kingdom
Hungerford
West Berkshire
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
I think you have a gropupthink issue that's way overvaluing turn order, since it's often more efficient to bribe the player going first, than compete in the bid. In our games, at least half the time first place is won for 1f (and sometimes there are no bids). They ramp up a lot in what could be the last turn.

I think you are probably misplaying Benefactor (Domestic/External market doesn't affect it) as well as mis-strategising - I'd FAR rather get 2nd place for very cheap, than pay heavily for 1st...
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Rollo Tomosi
United States
San Juan Capistrano
California
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
If I wasn't so upset about the United States coming to an end tomorrow I might have the energy to make some snarky comment about how 'unbalanced' Archipelago REALLY is....
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.