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Subject: Where do I find a monster's range? rss

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Mark B
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Sometimes the app will say that a monster moves into the same space and attacks, sometimes it says that the monster moves "within range" and attacks. What is the range of a monster attack? It seems to be different for different monsters (some need to move into same space with investigators, others need to move within range), but it is not on the stats card.
 
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Alexander Steinbach
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"Range" is within 3 spaces and not obstructed by a wall or a door. This is the same for all monsters, investigators and game effects.

Sometimes a monster will do a "melee" attack and needs to be in the same space as the investigator. Sometimes a monster may do a ranged attack. This is not on any card because it is determined by the app. But if it is a ranged attack, the range is always up to 3 spaces away.
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Mark B
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So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.
 
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B C Z
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Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.


It's a Hunting Horror. Are you not Horrified that it is Hunting you?
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Paul C
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byronczimmer wrote:
Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.


It's a Hunting Horror. Are you not Horrified that it is Hunting you?


Touche sir!
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Jay Cockrell
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Eagle Ov Death wrote:
byronczimmer wrote:
Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.


It's a Hunting Horror. Are you not Horrified that it is Hunting you?


Touche sir!


Oooo, I'll have to keep an eye out for that, I wonder if I've mistakenly read this at times.

However I can give one piece of sage advice. If a Cthonian is chasing after you, trying to barricade a door with your handy 2x4 is not going to keep this eldritch beast at bay in the slightest....
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Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.

It not as bad as it sounds since you don't count range through walls or doors. If you are being hunted by a multi strike range monster, you may want to have some investigators hide behind different doorways.
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Alexander Steinbach
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Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.


If that's how the app instructs it, it is perfectly correct, no matter how you may feel about it.
 
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Baker Odom
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Mark B wrote:
So the Hunting Horror moves three spaces toward the investigators, then attacks all investigators within 3 spaces? This effectively allows the hunting horror to attack anything 6 spaces away, which seems wrong.


Range is found on page 15 of the RRG and clearly states range is 3 spaces.
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David Bell
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Just be sure to read the app's instructions very carefully. I've seen a bunch of questions stemming from reading in the word 'range' when it isn't there, or not seeing it when it is there. Most of these questions go away when you read what the app actually says, and not just what you think it says.
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Blake Curry
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Vardaine wrote:
"Range" is within 3 spaces and not obstructed by a wall or a door. This is the same for all monsters, investigators and game effects.

Sometimes a monster will do a "melee" attack and needs to be in the same space as the investigator. Sometimes a monster may do a ranged attack. This is not on any card because it is determined by the app. But if it is a ranged attack, the range is always up to 3 spaces away.


Wait, are you saying that if a monster is in the hallway, and you are in the study, the monster literally cannot use its move to enter the study and attack you, and thus has to just stand outside like a dumb knob?

Surely that isn't accurate. Are you instead suggesting that if the monster moves forward and attacks Wendy Adams in the hallway, its attack will not go through the door and also attack Harvey in the study? That would make sense, but surely a monster can go THROUGH a door.
 
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Baker Odom
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Homey_Christ wrote:
Vardaine wrote:
"Range" is within 3 spaces and not obstructed by a wall or a door. This is the same for all monsters, investigators and game effects.

Sometimes a monster will do a "melee" attack and needs to be in the same space as the investigator. Sometimes a monster may do a ranged attack. This is not on any card because it is determined by the app. But if it is a ranged attack, the range is always up to 3 spaces away.


Wait, are you saying that if a monster is in the hallway, and you are in the study, the monster literally cannot use its move to enter the study and attack you, and thus has to just stand outside like a dumb knob?

Surely that isn't accurate. Are you instead suggesting that if the monster moves forward and attacks Wendy Adams in the hallway, its attack will not go through the door and also attack Harvey in the study? That would make sense, but surely a monster can go THROUGH a door.


If the monster is instructed to move toward the nearest survivor within range and no survivors are within range (which includes being just one space away with a door in between) then you will click "No survivors within range" and the app will have the monster do something else...often moving toward the nearest survivor regardless of range.
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Blake Curry
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Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?
 
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Drake Coker
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Homey_Christ wrote:
Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?


That's not even consensus, it's the unambiguous rules

You do need to watch out between "in range" and "nearest" in the instructions though. "In range" won't go through doors, "nearest" will. Running from the monsters is often viable because of the way "range" works, but they likely won't just sit there either and eventually the pressure will build up.
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Baker Odom
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Homey_Christ wrote:
Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?


I don't think you're completely understanding what we're saying. If (and ONLY if) the app instructs the monster to move toward an investigator in range then it will not move through a door. Range is clearly defined in the RRG as being blocked by doors. So in that case you would tell the app there are no investigators within range. The app will then most likely tell you to move the monster in a different way...often toward the nearest investigator (and in this case NOT specifying range). If the app tells you to move a monster without any mention of range then by all means move that monster through the door.
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Blake Curry
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thebaker1983 wrote:
Homey_Christ wrote:
Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?


I don't think you're completely understanding what we're saying. If (and ONLY if) the app instructs the monster to move toward an investigator in range then it will not move through a door. Range is clearly defined in the RRG as being blocked by doors. So in that case you would tell the app there are no investigators within range. The app will then most likely tell you to move the monster in a different way...often toward the nearest investigator (and in this case NOT specifying range). If the app tells you to move a monster without any mention of range then by all means move that monster through the door.


Range for purposes of spell attacks, using items or abilities, and horror checks I get, but a cultist being told to move 2 spaces not being able to figure out how to go into a door of his own mansion seems asinine.

I suppose I will concede to you all that based on its wording, that apparently is what it means. However, I will now ignore that because that's super silly and makes the game too easy.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Edit: Heh, I had a feeling I'd be a bit late to the party here, but hopefully the time spent on writing up the examples below will make things really clear.

Homey_Christ wrote:
Wait, are you saying that if a monster is in the hallway, and you are in the study, the monster literally cannot use its move to enter the study and attack you, and thus has to just stand outside like a dumb knob?

Yes, given an instruction of 'move towards a particular investigator within range'. Note that this is a rare instruction. The monster is much more likely to be given an instruction like 'move towards a particular investigator and then attack investigators within range'. Note the difference here. The movement instruction does not mention range, so it will move through doors in this case.

This is why David says to ensure you actually read the instruction you are given. The instructions are written very literally and are easy to follow if you actually read them.

Quote:
Surely that isn't accurate. Are you instead suggesting that if the monster moves forward and attacks Wendy Adams in the hallway, its attack will not go through the door and also attack Harvey in the study? That would make sense, but surely a monster can go THROUGH a door.

Nobody said monsters can't go through doors. They just said that range doesn't go through doors.

For example, let's assume the monster is in a hallway with Wendy Adams (Health = 6), who is 2 spaces away. Harvey Walters (Health = 5) is in the Study and there is a door connecting Harvey's space with the monster's space. There are no other investigators on the map. Here is how the monster would react given various instructions:

"Move 3 spaces towards the investigator within range with the lowest Health and then attack all investigators within the monsters space."
The monster checks all investigators within range, which it turns out is only Wendy. She is the target (even though Harvey has lower Health) and the monster moves towards her 2 spaces and then stops as it can no longer move towards her. The monster then attacks Wendy.

"Move 3 spaces towards the investigator with the lowest Health and then attack all investigators within range."
The monster checks all investigators and finds Harvey has the lowest Health. It heads towards him via the door and stops after one space as it cannot move towards him any further. It then attacks Harvey. Although Wendy is within 3 spaces, she is no longer within range of the monster, so she won't be attacked.

"Move 2 spaces to be within range of the most investigators as possible and then attack all investigators within range."
Here, you have a choice. The most investigators the monster can be within range of is 1. The monster could move into Harvey's space, into a different space of the Study adjacent to Harvey's space, into Wendy's space, into the space between the monster and Wendy, a space further down the hallway away from Wendy, or it could even stay put. The players decide which of these events they prefer to happen (rolling to see who gets to choose if a unanimous decision cannot be made). Then the monster attacks either Harvey or Wendy, whichever investigator it is within range of.
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Baker Odom
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Homey_Christ wrote:
thebaker1983 wrote:
Homey_Christ wrote:
Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?


I don't think you're completely understanding what we're saying. If (and ONLY if) the app instructs the monster to move toward an investigator in range then it will not move through a door. Range is clearly defined in the RRG as being blocked by doors. So in that case you would tell the app there are no investigators within range. The app will then most likely tell you to move the monster in a different way...often toward the nearest investigator (and in this case NOT specifying range). If the app tells you to move a monster without any mention of range then by all means move that monster through the door.


Range for purposes of spell attacks, using items or abilities, and horror checks I get, but a cultist being told to move 2 spaces not being able to figure out how to go into a door of his own mansion seems asinine.

I suppose I will concede to you all that based on its wording, that apparently is what it means. However, I will now ignore that because that's super silly and makes the game too easy.


How does it make the game too easy? As soon as you select "No investigator within range" the app will give you an alternate movement that will still keep the investigators on their heels. I'm winning the game less than 50% of the time. Obeying the range rule does not make it too easy. (Of course there's also the possibility I just suck at the game )
 
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David Bell
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Again, make sure to read the app's instructions very carefully. Often (possibly most of the time), monsters don't mention range at all when moving.

Or in some cases, monsters will do one kind of movement if someone is in range, but a different kind of movement if no one is in range.

It's not that the cultist "can't figure out how to open the door", it's that it just does a different action if there's a door in the way, and the only way the app can know it's time to do that alternate action is if you read and follow the instructions carefully.
 
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Blake Curry
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thebaker1983 wrote:
Homey_Christ wrote:
thebaker1983 wrote:
Homey_Christ wrote:
Wow really? That just made the game incredibly easier. That's really the consensus? like even a cultist can't figure out doorknobs?


I don't think you're completely understanding what we're saying. If (and ONLY if) the app instructs the monster to move toward an investigator in range then it will not move through a door. Range is clearly defined in the RRG as being blocked by doors. So in that case you would tell the app there are no investigators within range. The app will then most likely tell you to move the monster in a different way...often toward the nearest investigator (and in this case NOT specifying range). If the app tells you to move a monster without any mention of range then by all means move that monster through the door.


Range for purposes of spell attacks, using items or abilities, and horror checks I get, but a cultist being told to move 2 spaces not being able to figure out how to go into a door of his own mansion seems asinine.

I suppose I will concede to you all that based on its wording, that apparently is what it means. However, I will now ignore that because that's super silly and makes the game too easy.


How does it make the game too easy? As soon as you select "No investigator within range" the app will give you an alternate movement that will still keep the investigators on their heels. I'm winning the game less than 50% of the time. Obeying the range rule does not make it too easy. (Of course there's also the possibility I just suck at the game )


Well because even though the monster walks in afterwards, he no longer attacks. So he just does you a favor by approaching you and then standing perfectly still, giving you both full actions to get to beat him into a pulp. It just....seems odd. I entirely understand what everyone is saying about it now, but I personally feel I am going to house-rule that if it says the monster is to move 2-3 spaces, then that's what it is going to do. To me that just makes sense.

at any rate, I do sincerely appreciate these thorough responses. Thanks a lot, guys and gals. It is helpful.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Homey_Christ wrote:
Range for purposes of spell attacks, using items or abilities, and horror checks I get, but a cultist being told to move 2 spaces not being able to figure out how to go into a door of his own mansion seems asinine.

Just to add to my post above, this is clearly wrong. A Cultist told to 'move 2 spaces' will indeed move through doors. When it won't move through doors is when the Cultist is told to 'move 2 spaces towards something within range'. It will hardly ever move through a door in this case (although it is possible if range can be found another way, such as an there being a dotted edge between the same rooms).

Quote:
I suppose I will concede to you all that based on its wording, that apparently is what it means. However, I will now ignore that because that's super silly and makes the game too easy.

Please ensure you have fully read the above posts without the assumption you were making, first.

Homey_Christ wrote:
I entirely understand what everyone is saying about it now, but I personally feel I am going to house-rule that if it says the monster is to move 2-3 spaces, then that's what it is going to do. To me that just makes sense.

And we all agree that it moves 2-3 spaces through the door here too! However, it will not go through the door when the app instructs it to move towards something within range. This is the distinction that you missed in the posts above.
 
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Blake Curry
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Clipper wrote:

And we all agree that it moves 2-3 spaces through the door here too! However, it will not go through the door when the app instructs it to move towards something within range. This is the distinction that you missed in the posts above.


Sir, I did not miss your instructions. I understand what you are suggesting. I am merely stating that I disagree with the notion that a cultist being asked to move 3 spaces to an investigator in range standing still, then receiving instructions to "move 3 spaces toward that same investigator anyway and then stand perfectly still and get beat up next round" is a reasonable instruction.

I am no longer contesting the rules and wholly understand your point, but rather am opting to ignore it because to me, it is illogical. I will put it to group vote during any particular game, but I know the buddy I'm playing with tomorrow has already agreed to the house rule tweak. But again, I do appreciate the responses and dialog.
 
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Fair enough. Have you considered that your house rule has to cover my first example from a few posts above too? Your house rule is allowing the monster to move through doors when it is asked to move to something within range and nobody is within range. In the case that there is an investigator within range - Wendy in my example - do you plan to allow it to move through the door then too and thus have the monster seek out Harvey even though it is only meant to be evaluating the investigators within range?

That seems to be the whole point in the rare situations where a monster is given a within range restriction on movement. It's in a bloodlust and only cares about the investigators it can see for the time being. If there's nobody to attack, the monster might waste some of its time calming down to reorient itself and thus has no opportunity to attack.
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David Bell
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You can play however you want, but the app's going to assume you're playing correctly, so good luck matching up your house rules to the app's unyielding commands.
 
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Blake Curry
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Hmm, so you are suggesting that in these instances, it is bloodlust tunnel vision that has them acting this way, so even if it knows for sure that Harvey just ran into that room, it would not care and instead just chase after Wendy, even if Harvey is the applicable investigator that it would otherwise have chosen?

....I shall think on this reasoning, as it adds actual context to what otherwise comes off as an entirely arbitrary decision to simply have the monster flounder.
 
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