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Subject: Russet vs Brown rss

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Rebecca Carpenter
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Quirky Brits. Always calling things funny names (pram), or incorrect names (trolley, chips, pants, biscuit) and even adding entire syllables to words (aluminium?!). So my bafflement came to no surprise when I encountered "russet" tiles, that really were brown, in 1860 the Isle of Wrong.

Turns out Tresham chose russet for a reason, and here it is courtesy of Blackwater Station:

Explanation of the tile colour "russet":
Francis Tresham, in the 18xx games he has written (1825, 1829, 1853, and 1829 Mainline), uses the word russet to refer to the tile colour that is elsewhere called brown. But he also makes some map hexes brown, a colour that does not appear on any tile in 1853. The difference between the two is that it is illegal to build track that runs into the blank side of a brown hex (but it is OK to build track into the blank side of a russet tile or hex).
In most other 18xx games, hexes where it is illegal to build track into a blank side of the hex are grey instead of brown (at least if the game has any grey tiles). And the russet tiles look brown, and I expect that they can be substituted for brown tiles from other games (or vice versa) without any problem. Therefore, I have taken the liberty of depicting them as brown, and of treating them as the equivalents of brown tiles in other 18xx games. - John David Galt

http://www.18xx.net/tiles/1853.htm#russet
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J C Lawrence
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Additionally, russet hexes can often be upgraded, but brown hexes can't be upgraded (ever).
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8-bit Matt
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If I had to create a new BGG username, it would be "Buff Hexags"
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Michael Theiss
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The Japanese translation for a group of trains is Algae.


Enrico Viglino
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Slowed - BGG's moderation policies have driven me partially from here
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his doinkers
https://www.boardgamegeek.com/video/31603/1853/1853-intro
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I'll think of something witty to put here...
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>What is English?
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Michael Theiss
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Group of trains
 
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Richard Dewsbery
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Aluminium has exactly the right number of syllables. Its not our fault if the pesky colonials cause trouble for themselves by dropping vowels out of words whenever they feel like it. It's troubling, especially in a thread about the COLOUR of tiles.
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Fire Lord
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RDewsbery wrote:
Aluminium has exactly the right number of syllables. Its not our fault if the pesky colonials cause trouble for themselves by dropping vowels out of words whenever they feel like it. It's troubling, especially in a thread about the COLOUR of tiles.


Yes, similar to "boatswain".
 
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Mike Hutton
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CoffeeRunner wrote:
Quirky Brits. Always calling things funny names (pram), or incorrect names (trolley, chips, pants, biscuit) and even adding entire syllables to words (aluminium?!). So my bafflement came to no surprise when I encountered "russet" tiles, that really were brown, in 1860 the Isle of Wrong.


This quirky Brit chose russet especially because the tiles in 1860 are actually russet, as well as being brown. This is in turn because 1860 used 1825 as its base for design rather than 1830, in turn because the design is cleaner and more resilient.

You may be confusing these tiles with the equivalent 1830 tiles, which are indeed merely brown as they lack sufficient red pigment to qualify as being russet as well. Compare them.

So we have to conclude that it's the quirky old Americans with their new-fangled use of gray (or is it grey)? off-board areas and merely brown tiles in 1830 which are responsible for the confusion and stress.

And it was the Americans who removed a syllable (well, ok - just a letter) from Aluminium. Thanks to an oddly edited spelling book put out by Noam Webster, and a strangely French-style desire to be "different". After all, it's only the USA and Canada who drop the "i".

Pram is short for perambulator, which is the correct term for the device. Which is still a much better word to use than the American "stroller", which is actually someone who strolls.

And so on.
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Rebecca Carpenter
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Mike Hutton wrote:
CoffeeRunner wrote:
Quirky Brits. Always calling things funny names (pram), or incorrect names (trolley, chips, pants, biscuit) and even adding entire syllables to words (aluminium?!). So my bafflement came to no surprise when I encountered "russet" tiles, that really were brown, in 1860 the Isle of Wrong.


This quirky Brit chose russet especially because the tiles in 1860 are actually russet, as well as being brown. This is in turn because 1860 used 1825 as its base for design rather than 1830, in turn because the design is cleaner and more resilient.

You may be confusing these tiles with the equivalent 1830 tiles, which are indeed merely brown as they lack sufficient red pigment to qualify as being russet as well. Compare them.

So we have to conclude that it's the quirky old Americans with their new-fangled use of gray (or is it grey)? off-board areas and merely brown tiles in 1830 which are responsible for the confusion and stress.

And it was the Americans who removed a syllable (well, ok - just a letter) from Aluminium. Thanks to an oddly edited spelling book put out by Noam Webster, and a strangely French-style desire to be "different". After all, it's only the USA and Canada who drop the "i".

Pram is short for perambulator, which is the correct term for the device. Which is still a much better word to use than the American "stroller", which is actually someone who strolls.

And so on.


Mr.Hutton, perambulator is almost as useless a name as your companies were given in 1862. But that's the least of my concerns, I'll be needing an ambulator sent to recesitate me if I don't get my hands on a copy of 1833 1/3 soon. Stock actions in place of operating?! I like that variety of British induced bafflement very much.

Why is 1825 more resilient?
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Mike Hutton
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CoffeeRunner wrote:


Mr.Hutton, perambulator is almost as useless a name as your companies were given in 1862. But that's the least of my concerns, I'll be needing an ambulator sent to recesitate me if I don't get my hands on a copy of 1833 1/3 soon. Stock actions in place of operating?! I like that variety of British induced bafflement very much.

Why is 1825 more resilient?


Rebecca, don't knock it! Perambulator is only one in a long line of self-descriptive terms; almost Germanic in its utility. Where would I be without the omnibus? Or a refrigerator? Stuck at home with a bottle of rancid milk with nothing to push my baby in, that's where!

I can't claim responsibility for the names of the companies in 1862/EA. They're all other peoples' ideas. I.e. the people who actually set up the companies themselves. Usually to describe something pointless like where the company would run between. The most dysfunctional was the Northern & Eastern, which didn't make it to the north, and wasn't really interested in developing to the east. But it started with lofty ambitions anyway. Not unlike the Manchester & Milford railway, which didn't reach Manchester. Or Milford Haven. But hey.

1833 1/3 is still undergoing surgery - it takes about an hour too long, but it's getting better with each session. A few more simplifications and we may have the thing in public play-testable form later this year. If you can't last that long then a perambulator might be less useful than a defibrillator...

Should we allowed to keep the russet tiles in there? Or should we branch out into beige? Or taupe?

1825 is more resilient in that its mechanisms interlock but are not so dependent on each other for success - you can ditch or seriously rethink whole mechanisms without too much fear of breaking the game as a whole. In 1830 (and other 1830-style games), for example, the imperative to have a train only works because you have the possibility of being forced to pay from hand and thereby fall into bankruptcy. That in turn doesn't work unless you stop players from completely divesting themselves of their shares, so in goes the 50% restriction in the bank pool, and so on. In order for one part of the economy to work, the game has to impose restrictions on other parts. Otherwise the system does not work as intended and players can exploit - and thereby break - the game.

You don't get that sort of chain of dependency anything like as much with 1825.

In fairness 1860 has its own chains of rule dependencies. They just have a completely different tack to 1830.

Mike.
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J C Lawrence
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Your comment on company names rings a chord here. In my own English game (covering an area of roughly everything south and east of Preston) I'm using the following companies:

Birmingham & Derby Junction Railway
Bristol & Gloucester Railway
Canterbury & Whitstable Railway
Charnwood Forest Railway
Chipping Norton Railway
Colne Valley & Halstead Railway
Cromford & High Peak Railway
Lancashire Union Railway
Liverpool, Ormskirk & Preston Railway
London & Birmingham Railway
London & Brighton Railway
London & Greenwich Railway
London & Southampton Railway
London, Chatham & Dover Railway
Manchester & Birmingham Railway
Manchester, South Junction & Altrincham Railway
Mansfield & Pinxton Railway
Mid-Hants Railway
Midland & Great Northern Joint Railway
Northampton & Peterborough Railway
Oxford, Worcester & Wolverhampton Railway
Preston & Wyre Joint Railway
Sheffield, Ashton-under-Lyne & Manchester Railway
Sheffield, Rotherham, Barnsley, Wakefield, Huddersfield & Goole Railway
Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway
Southampton & Dorchester Railway
Stockport, Timperley & Altrincham Junction Railway
Stockton & Darlington Railway
Wrexham, Mold & Connah's Quay Railway
Yarmouth & Norwich Railway


Its an entertaining business picking early pre-merger companies.
 
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Mike Hutton wrote:
And it was the Americans who removed a syllable (well, ok - just a letter) from Aluminium. Thanks to an oddly edited spelling book put out by Noam Webster, and a strangely French-style desire to be "different". After all, it's only the USA and Canada who drop the "i".

While Noah (not Noam) Webster is responsible for many of the misspellings the Americans have inflicted upon the world, the choice of "aluminum" over "aluminium" isn't his fault. When elemental aluminium was first discovered, there was considerable debate about what to call it. Amongst some others, "alumum" and "alumium" were considered before Davy finally plumped for "aluminum" in his paper to the Royal Society. Some reviewer, who remains anonymous, suggested that "aluminium" was more euphonious, and that's how it ended up. Or at least it would have done had the Americans not got hold of an early draft of Davy's paper and then consistently refused to be dragged into the 19th century.
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Mike Hutton
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JC,

Interesting indeed. I would consider that your East Anglian choices might more historically (and consistently) be chosen as

Colne Valley & Halstead Railway -> Eastern Counties Railway

Yarmouth & Norwich Railway -> The Norfolk Railway (combination of Y&N and N&B).

I would leave M&GN as it is if you need a link from Peterborough to Norwich, but it is a much later set of railways.

Of course, this all depends on where they start from and how whimsical vs historical you want to be. E.g. if the south London stations are on a single hex I'd choose the South Eastern Railway over the L&G as it was far more influential (the L&G was leased to the SER fairly early on; 1845 I believe). But there is a romance about the L&G being the first steam railway in London, along with its remarkable (and economically crippling) practice of running over viaducts for a good portion of its length.

 
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J C Lawrence
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Mike Hutton wrote:
Interesting indeed. I would consider that your East Anglian choices might more historically (and consistently) be chosen as

Colne Valley & Halstead Railway -> Eastern Counties Railway

Yarmouth & Norwich Railway -> The Norfolk Railway (combination of Y&N and N&B).


I specifically went the other way as ECR and NR are both merger companies and I'm specifically trying to stay with early/original companies.

Quote:
I would leave M&GN as it is if you need a link from Peterborough to Norwich, but it is a much later set of railways.


Good point. I've been trying to get early and non-merger and a reasonably even spread across the covered area and to avoid junction and joint lines. In this I've mostly tried to ignore whether a line was influential, beyond at least having a non-trivial route, except as a sort of tie breaker.

Quote:
Of course, this all depends on where they start from and how whimsical vs historical you want to be. E.g. if the south London stations are on a single hex I'd choose the South Eastern Railway over the L&G as it was far more influential (the L&G was leased to the SER fairly early on; 1845 I believe). But there is a romance about the L&G being the first steam railway in London, along with its remarkable (and economically crippling) practice of running over viaducts for a good portion of its length.


Well, I have no home station locations (think 1817-style), so that's fairly flexible. (I spent some adolescent years lurking by those viaducts)
 
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Mike Hutton
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The canon of East Anglian companies goes something like:

N&E 1836 - was supposed to build to Cambridge and failed
ECR 1836 (just after) - built to Colchester by 1843, stopped, and then bought everything in sight.
Y&N 1842 - first railway in Norfolk
N&B 1844 - merged with Y&N to form the Norfolk railway in 1845, just before the N&B line opened. So in that sense the Norfolk is almost an original.
EUR 1844 - built by frustrated people in Ipswich 'cos the ECR couldn't be bothered to complete the line from Colchester.

and then it all exploded. Dates are years of incorporation.

If you want an early company from East Anglia then ECR is the one to go for. Yes, it bought a lot of other companies, but the triple axis of East Anglian railways up to 1849 was ECR, EUR, and the Norfolk (Y&N and N&B combined). The ECR had swallowed up the EUR and Norfolk by 1854.

There is also the historical aspect - namely that the scandal at the ECR caused the biggest financial crash before the famous Overend Gurney crisis of 1866, and the abrupt end of railway mania.
 
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