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Crowdfunding: Kickstarter» Forums » General

Subject: The Duchess Gaming Table - Pictures & First Impressions rss

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Josh
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I'm backer #326. I ordered a brown complete set with no add-ons. I live in Northern California, about 500 miles from Funagain, and received the table the day after they shipped it out. The boxes arrived mostly intact, the box for the table itself had one end of tape come loose and was starting to separate as I carried it into the house (probably partially due to the cardboard being rather damp because it was pouring rain).

You can definitely smell the stain even before you open the boxes, but it is not overpowering. We made no effort to ventilate and a couple hours later we can barely smell it.



Yes, my heart did skip a beat when I saw "BLONDE" on the topper box bottom. But all of the other sides of the box were labelled "BROWN" and a quick check inside revealed it wasn't blonde.

Every individual piece is securely wrapped in bubble wrap and there is a thick layer of foam padding around all edges. And it is thick, about 3x or 4x what I've seen from other products.



It took a little over 2 hours to put the table together. Subtract maybe 30 minutes for pauses to take pictures along the way. I did it mostly on my own, but had one of my sons helping for a couple of the steps. The most difficult part was screwing in the wood screws for the metal brackets in the corners while trying to keep the corners tight.

The instructions were simple and easy to follow for the most part. One part that wasn't super clear is the layout of the support beams. There are two machine screw holes in each of the short support beams that need to be towards the floor as you build the table (you build it upside down). The initial diagram in step one shows this correct, but the following diagrams show it opposite of the way it should be.


I initially put the beams in the wrong way, but then noticed the screw holes and decided to double-check.


Support beams in the correct way.


Standing it up on end to slide in the base boards. This is one step where you'll want a helper.


Got the brackets screwed in. As I said before, this part was pretty hard. The screws are nice and did not strip easy or break as some cheaper screws would have under the same forces, but be careful not to apply too much force too fast or you will strip them or break a head off. I had to carefully use a socket wrench for additional torque to get a couple of them in all of the way.


A bracket screw enters the four holes for the cupholder attachment points closest to the corners. I have not tried installing the cupholders yet so I do not know if this matters.
Update: This is not an issue. The part on the cupholder that enters this hole is the locking divot (a hemisphere just a couple mm tall). Though it does appear that this small metal bracket and its two screws are what is causing the under armrest damage.


Legs installed. The instructions make no mention of washers, but it came with a full set, so I used them on the leg bolts. Now all that is left is to turn it over and put in the mat.


Came with a few spare bits. Always nice to have extras. Good job following the LEGO example


Completed table and some closeups so you can see the base screws and how well the base fills the corners.


Playmat unrolled.


There are definitely some shrinkage issues. This is with the playmat pulled tight to one corner so the full amount of deficiency in size is seen in the opposite corner.


There were some somewhat sizable dings/dents, especially the underside of all of the armrests as pictured above. All of it out of sight once the table is set upright.


There's nothing to assemble for the topper, you just put on one half and then the other.


Closeups of the topper seam and the super smooth surface. Spills will definitely get into the seam and need to be cleaned out, but it looks like it will do a good job keeping them out of the playing area. I did not test it. My kids will do that tomorrow without my asking.


It's hard to get a good picture of it, but some of the grooves in the topper don't have quite enough stain coverage. In the first pic, the right groove has much better coverage as does the left groove in the second pic.


Final setup with bench and chairs (not Duchess chairs) and some additional shots showing spacing. Three chairs will fit on the long end with about 5 inches between them, so that might work for younger children, but for adults you would be bumping elbows too much.

The table is solid and the stain is really nice and smooth. The table sits perfectly level on the floor with no wobble (either that or our floor is warped..)

It is a bit higher than our prior table and that will take a little getting used to and maybe some seat cushions for the younger kids.

The interior of the play area is almost exactly 3x5 ft. Just a hair over in both dimensions, about 1/32 in. Definitely less than 1/16.

I'm itching to take it for a test run this weekend. Maybe something with its own playmate like x-wing so I can ignore the playmate size issues for now

UPDATE 1

Mat color
Lighting was from 4 5000K LED 60 watt equiv bulbs plus I used a dedicated flash (with a diffuser) pointed at the ceiling for most of the pics. The colors in my pics are a bit brighter than reality. Looking at the colors on this page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Shades_of_red , the pics make the mat look like just plain Red or Scarlet, but it is actually more like Turkey Red or Carnelian or maybe Venetian Red. Or looking at this image: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/449093394064583150/ it is somewhere between Carnelian and Carmine. It is not Candy Apple Red or Rossa Corsa.

Mat thickness
I measured the thickness at a little over 2mm. Like the foam interior is 2mm and then the fabric exterior adds a little more, maybe 0.2mm. It was tough getting a good shot with the ruler lined up properly. Below are my best attempts. That being said, I'm ok with the thickness as-is. It feels fine so far, but I guess a full game play would be a better test. I do worry about the edge of the mat fraying over time, but not much because I dont expect to flip it often.


Mat ripples
The mat is shipped rolled and needs to settle. The instructions say that it could take 4 weeks to fully flatten. I'm not worried about it. Below are some pics 18hrs later. It's a little flatter than it was. I guess if I put that extended Scythe board on it for a while that might speed it up


Mat size
I centered the mat to get a better idea of how it would look in actual use. Below is a pic showing measurements of two edges with it approximately centered. This is really my only problem with the mat -- I want full surface coverage. Otherwise I like the mat. The blue color is fine, the thickness is fine, and the ripples should take care of themselves.


Scratches/dings under armrests
I'm not sure if this happened during shipping or not. Everything was individually bubble wrapped. If it was during shipping my guess would be it was caused by the cup holder attachments banging and rubbing against it. I could get measurements of where along the armrests the issues are, but I dont remember how they overlapped in the box, but I guess Chad would know that part. Some of the dings are distinctly round, so it could have been caused by the round screw head hitting it.

Base boards
The base boards are not as well finished, if at all -- I'm not a wood-worker, so there may be some nuances I'm not aware of. Maybe sanded smooth and a stain applied because they are darker wood than what I'm used to seeing for plywood, so could be a stain or just a diff type of wood. I'm not worried about getting a splinter from it, but it is definitely not a playing surface. There is a seem down the middle and four inset screw holes. The base feels nice and solid. I didnt measure, but I'd guess the base boards are at least 1/2 in plywood if not 3/4. And since plywood, shouldnt have any warping issues. The support frames underneath I think are the same thickness as the armrest and are fully finished.

Topper grooves
I tried to get a couple more pics of this but it is hard to capture precisely. Take a look at the reflection of the stain in the grooves. The sections parallel with the green lines have issues with missing stain, slight cracking or separating. Not sure if that happened before and/or after the stain was applied.


One issue I forgot to post yesterday was a staple or nail in the underside of the topper lip that overlaps the bottom topper with the rubber strip. I was able to pus the nail back into the hole where the wood chipped out, so it wouldnt scratch anyone or rip the rubber strip. Before and after pics below.


Game on the table
I dont have time to actually play one, but I did a quick mid-game setup of the best game ever made. Note: I took these pics with a better low-light lens and only natural lighting. The colors here are a much closer match to actual than the colors in the images above.


UPDATE 2

I pulled out a cupholder to check that hole the bracket screw goes through and that is a non-issue. That hole is just for the locking divots that only enter the hole a couple mm and the screw enters it much deeper than that.

I also checked the under armrest scratches in relation to the small brackets for the cupholder locking divots and they exactly match up to all of the damage, so pretty sure that damage was caused by those parts being placed against each other and rubbing and/or banging.
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Crown of Command
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Wow, you're lucky the scratches were on the underside, although scratches in itself are unfortunate. I would be much more disappointed if I had scratches that large on the topside.

Also, those mats are kind of disappointing. I'm glad I preordered the Quiver mat to replace the one that came with table...just hope it fits.
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Jasper Kamp
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Wow, i'm glad europe will come after US, so we can expect these issues to be resolved before getting our table. But from looking at your photo's, these issues are in the unacceptable category for me. This just shows a low quality product. Damage is luckily on the underside but still shouldnt be there to begin with. The poorly stained grooves is just lack of quality control. Last and very least the mats, wow, they look thinner than paper, and the size is just way off.

This leaves me worried for the overal quality of the product.
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Chad Johnson
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Thanks for the great pictures Josh. I think you raised some very reasonable issues in your critique. Will be interested to see how Chad responds, particularly to the inadequate stain on the grooved topper and playmat issues. I know he had mentioned the shrinkage issue, but as others mentioned on the KS comments, the colors are really odd (Red != Burgundy). I can't tell from the pictures, but do you think the dings you photographed are errors in production (hold points, inadequate QA, etc.) or shipping consequences of the pieces being inadequately packaged and rubbing? When you get a game loaded up on it today, can you take some photos of the table in action?
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Peter Brooks
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Thanks for the pics Josh.

From the pictures, the worst part for me is easily the playmat (though the color isn’t a dealbreaker for me, it is moreso the size/thickness). I didn't get a topper, so I know I won't experience an issue there, but I can see why some people may have issues if theirs show similar staining. Now, the 'dings & dents' are also disappointing but I could live with them if they were definitely only ever to appear on the underside (as I could try and repair/cover it somewhat and no one would really ever know).

I do hope the dings & dents prove to be uncommon and that only a few people are just unlucky (not that I wish ill on you, just would be better for the project if your case was unique).

Also, regarding the mat, it does look like there are a bit of ripples from it being rolled up in shipment. Do the instructions mention anything about that settling over time, or if you should iron it? (if it even mentions the mat) I could see it fitting a little better if the ripples were gone (you mention it was pulled tightly to one side, but I don't know if that means it was flattened out or just butted up against one side).
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Y P
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joshaubry wrote:
I'm itching to take it for a test run this weekend. Maybe something with its own playmate like x-wing so I can ignore the playmate size issues for now

I would be very concerned about playmate size issues as well

Thanks so much for sharing your pictures and impressions! Looks like there will be some initial issues for them to sort out. Some of that just comes with mass production vs. their previously custom hand-built products. Hopefully they handle it well and are able to take care of all their backers.
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George Skillman
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I had assumed the surface underneath the pad was finished like the topper, skirt and legs. From your pics, I assume I was mistaken? This makes the pad issue even more critical. Also, how thick are the boards comprising the under-surface? Does it feel solid, especially given that it is comprised of two boards instead of one? Thanks.
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Mike W
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It looks like the damage on the armrests is all in identical spots on each piece. I wonder what is packed with those causing the damage, as it seems to be from something rubbing/hitting those spots in shipping.

Edit: Actually, it looks to me like all the damage is in line with the metal pieces on the armrests. I would guess they are flipping one over and stacking them in the package with no or little protection between the two pieces. If true that could easily be resolved moving forward.
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Trea O
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If I'm really honest the fact that it's damaged and the play mat looking
like that is kinda disappointing.

The play mat is:
1) Way to thin, it doesn't look to me like it will add a lot of padding at all. (but this could be the photos)
2) Completely off colour.
3) Looks like it's been cut by a pair of scissors and that's gone bad.

I really hope that these issues will be resolved in the later batches.
The table overall looks good, but the damage/dents and crappy play mats are really not acceptable for that price.

If those things are resolved though it will be a wonderful table.
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Cookie Monster
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All in all the table looks really good! Can't wait to get mine :-) But I agree that those scratches shouldn't have been there. And I share some concerns about the playmet: it looks a bit flimsy, and it can only look good if it fits snuggly into the table. I hope they address those issues for the coming shipments...
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Chad DeShon
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Josh, thanks for posting the pictures and for support the project.

For those who aren't following the Kickstarter updates, I was aware that there was going to be some issues with the playmat shrinking. However, we weren't able to get a good grasp how what percentage of the mats were going to be effected.

I decided to go ahead and ship these first couple batches of tables, knowing that some playmats would need to be replaced. There is no test like getting the product in customers hands. I didn't want to delay the project for two month to get the replacement mat, only to then find out about other issues that would cause further delay. All backers knew about the potential for a playmat sizing problem before shipment.

For those worried about the thickness or functionality of the playmat, I really don't think that should be an issue. They are 3mm thick. When comparison shopping, it seemed that most Magic the Gathering playmats were only 2mm thick, although there are lots of 3mm and other sizes out there as well. Problems with the usefulness of the mat never came up in our play testing, but Josh or others with a table are free to chime in if they disagree.

I'm going to be keeping my eye on the other problems that Josh pointed out, and listening intently to all feedback from these first backers.

I'm very glad to hear that the table was level and sturdy. That was our number one priority.
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Tammy Golden
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BlueWaldo wrote:
Josh, thanks for posting the pictures and for support the project.

For those who aren't following the Kickstarter updates, I was aware that there was going to be some issues with the playmat shrinking. However, we weren't able to get a good grasp how what percentage of the mats were going to be effected.

I decided to go ahead and ship these first couple batches of tables, knowing that some playmats would need to be replaced. There is no test like getting the product in customers hands. I didn't want to delay the project for two month to get the replacement mat, only to then find out about other issues that would cause further delay. All backers knew about the potential for a playmat sizing problem before shipment.

For those worried about the thickness or functionality of the playmat, I really don't think that should be an issue. They are 3mm thick. When comparison shopping, it seemed that most Magic the Gathering playmats were only 2mm thick, although there are lots of 3mm and other sizes out there as well. Problems with the usefulness of the mat never came up in our play testing, but Josh or others with a table are free to chime in if they disagree.

I'm going to be keeping my eye on the other problems that Josh pointed out, and listening intently to all feedback from these first backers.

I'm very glad to hear that the table was level and sturdy. That was our number one priority.


Chad, what about the color of the playmat? While it could just be the lighting in Josh's pictures, that playmat definitely looks like it is red, not burgundy, and the blue is different than I was expecting...I assumed the blue in the picture on the Kickstarter page was the shade of blue that the actual playmat would be, but this definitely looks lighter and brighter than that. Are these colors accurate? I don't think that shade is what most people had in mind when they voted for a burgundy playment...It's just a bit concerning.
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Chad DeShon
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The final blue might be a hair lighter that what was in the KS video.

The Burgundy is a bit on the brick red side of burgundy. When I asked for true Pantone burgundy it came out more fuchsia than we wanted, so we had to redden it up a big. But it isn't as bright red as those photos make it look.

Lighting is everything. How it looks for you will depend on the lighting in your room.

When I saw that mats in to sample table, I really though they look great. Of course, opinions will vary.

The material itself is the exact same material that was in the KS video, and at Origins, Gen Con, and BGG Con.
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J Hardin
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My table arrives sometime next week. I'll be sure and add pics as well, and Chad I'll communicate with you directly if there are any issues.

We've seen one table. 1. I'll wait to make any assumptions until I get mine, and we have a larger sample size
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Tammy Golden
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BlueWaldo wrote:
The final blue might be a hair lighter that what was in the KS video.

The Burgundy is a bit on the brick red side of burgundy. When I asked for true Pantone burgundy it came out more fuchsia than we wanted, so we had to redden it up a big. But it isn't as bright red as those photos make it look.

Lighting is everything. How it looks for you will depend on the lighting in your room.

When I saw that mats in to sample table, I really though they look great. Of course, opinions will vary.

The material itself is the exact same material that was in the KS video, and at Origins, Gen Con, and BGG Con.


Great! I thought that it could just be the lighting, but wanted to check to make sure. Thanks for the quick response and all of your hard work! My table is still a ways off (went for a blonde table, so the soonest possibility of it being here is late February/early March), but seeing pictures of other people's tables is getting me more excited. The table itself looks great!
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Mark
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All in all a pretty good looking table considering all it's been through to get to you.

Hopefully you are the only one who experiences the damage and stain issues that you did.

I really love the idea to add that decorative groove around the outside and center of the topper halves. It really takes away from the seam.

Looking at those mats I wonder if I will be able to get refunded on the two extra mats I ordered. Unless the issue can be addressed I think I'd rather get a mat somewhere else. Can't tell from the pictures how thin it is or how easy it is to pick up cards, etc. Also can't tell about the color.
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Michael B
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Thank you for posting these pictures and highlighting these issues. Please update this thread if you discover anything new or have any impressions after your first couple plays. It is my hope the mat will stretch back out a bit after being layed out for a couple days, let us know if this is the case. My table arrives today, I am in Southern California. My biggest concern after your article is the damage to the wood and the stain on the topper. Hopefully issues with the mat will addressed more easily and replaced by Chad once a new supplier is found. I will update if I have similar issues once I can set aside 2 hours to build it.
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Chris Evans
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Thanks for the great pictures! I'd love to see pics of games on the table if possible. I'm sure Chad will take care of any problems.
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Mark S

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I also ordered an extra mat. I thought the blue was going to be a darker, more royal-ish blue. This looks much lighter than the original one shown on kickstarter.. I'm wondering if there is a way to cancel our extra mat purchase and use that money elsewhere and purchase a 3rd party mat since the colors are off and they are very very very wrong in size.
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Stefan Yates
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Chad,
One easy way to ease concern for minor scratches could be to include a matching wood finish stain marker in the shipment. I don't know what kind of cost this would entail, but it would be an easy fix for minor scratches and dings to the product that occur during shipping.
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Tammy Golden
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For those who are worried about the thickness of the playmat, I did a little comparison to other popular playmats, and the 3mm thickness of the one coming with the Duchess is equal to or greater than the thickness of them.

2nd Generation Quiver Gaming Gear Mat:
Quiver Gaming Gear Kickstarter wrote:
the final thickness is a hair over 3 mm


Inked Gaming:
Inked Gaming FAQ wrote:
Our playmats are about 1/16" [1.5875] thick. A little thicker.


GripMat:
GripMat Kickstarter wrote:
this approximately 1/8" [3.175mm] thick mat


FFG X-Wing Starfield Playmat:
The only thing I could find was a response to this question on Amazon, which stated it is about 1/8" [3.175mm] thick. I can't vouch for how accurate this is, however.

I couldn't find anything on HCD or UltraPro playmats, but I would assume they're around the same thickness as these.

Hopefully this gives everyone something to compare it to and makes them feel a bit better about the thickness.
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Trea O
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Thanks for the clarification Chad! I know you're doing everything you can to get the tables out as neat as possible!

I can imagine you seeing this was also a big bummer. All in all if the stain and mat issues are resolved we will get a wonderful table!

About the mat thickness, I guess it really depended on the pictures. But if the standard is 3mm then I wont complain.
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Scott Nash
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Here is a picture of my table in use. Interestingly, we had almost the opposite experience with the size of the playmat. Ours appears to be a bit too long, but fits perfectly, width-wise.



Interestingly, we also had a slight issue with one of our cup holder units, where one of the bolts came loose, from the cup holder. This was not a huge issue once the table was standing upright, as we were able to re-seat it, but if we had lost the bolt, the cup holder would no longer have locked in place.
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J Hardin
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ChuckBau3r wrote:
Here is a picture of my table in use. Interestingly, we had almost the opposite experience with the size of the playmat. Ours appears to be a bit too long, but fits perfectly, width-wise.



Interestingly, we also had a slight issue with one of our cup holder units, where one of the bolts came loose, from the cup holder. This was not a huge issue once the table was standing upright, as we were able to re-seat it, but if we had lost the bolt, the cup holder would no longer have locked in place.


And look at the completely different colors the mat appear to be. So many people forget that lighting, camera used, and hell even monitors can highly distort the color of any item.
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James J

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My thanks as well for posting the pics. I just assumed going in that dings, dents, stain issues, etc might crop up since this is a new, low-budget project being made in China. We have no control over that aspect of it. What calms me is the fact that Chad appears to be staying on top of things and is addressing issues as they crop up. Overall, I think it looks good. Hearing about the difficult wood screws on the corner brackets is what worries me. Heh.

projectmoonlightcafe wrote:
Wow, you're lucky the scratches were on the underside, although scratches in itself are unfortunate. I would be much more disappointed if I had scratches that large on the topside.


Agree that any damage is unfortunate, but I seriously doubt there was any luck involved. I'm quite confident the factory knows exactly which portions are visible and which are not and will fail any pieces with large, visible damage. But out of sight, out of mind.

EDIT: Josh figured out that the damage was likely due to hardware rubbing together while shipping. So some luck may have been involved. Then again, if they were worried things might rub together, they still placed them exactly right to hide the damage one assembled, so....
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