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Subject: The Longevity Top 100 rss

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JonMichael Rasmus
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In much the same way that games with few ratings need a Bayesian modifier, games that are new may need one as well to counteract recency effects. The following top 100 lists provide different version depending on how much recency tolerance you wish to maintain (I have only included the top 1000 games in this analysis):

100 Years:
1 Go
2 Crokinole
3 Chess
4 Cribbage
5 Xiangqi
6 Shogi
7 Mahjong
8 Poker
9 Bridge
10 Acquire
11 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
12 Diplomacy
13 Dune
14 Civilization
15 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
16 Die Macher
17 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
18 Advanced Squad Leader
19 Squad Leader
20 El Grande
21 Tichu
22 Up Front
23 Tigris & Euphrates
24 Magic: The Gathering
25 Puerto Rico
26 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
27 The Republic of Rome
28 Modern Art
29 Can't Stop
30 Britannia
31 Space Hulk
32 Blood Bowl - 3rd
33 Paths of Glory
34 Cosmic Encounter (1977)
35 Sleuth
36 Twilight Struggle
37 Ambush!
38 Titan
39 Eat Poop You Cat
40 Catan
41 Liar's Dice
42 RoboRally
43 Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815
44 Samurai
45 The Princes of Florence
46 Ra
47 Wizard
48 Power Grid
49 PitchCar
50 Ogre
51 The Russian Campaign
52 Ikusa
53 Magic Realm
54 Junta
55 Wooden Ships & Iron Men
56 Hare & Tortoise
57 For Sale
58 Carcassonne
59 HeroQuest
60 Merchant of Venus
61 The Civil War
62 A House Divided
63 History of the World
64 Formula Dé
65 Tikal
66 Battle Line
67 Age of Steam
68 Roads & Boats
69 Rommel in the Desert
70 Empires in Arms
71 Empire Builder
72 Medici
73 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
74 Kremlin
75 BattleTech
76 Bohnanza
77 Caylus
78 World in Flames
79 Um Reifenbreite
80 Bausack
81 War of the Ring -1st
82 Twilight Imperium 3rd
83 Loopin' Louie
84 Hive
85 Lost Cities
86 Agricola
87 6 nimmt!
88 Taj Mahal
89 Netrunner
90 Goa
91 Time's Up!
92 YINSH
93 Citadels
94 Through the Desert
95 Chinatown
96 Torres
97 Scotland Yard
98 Ticket to Ride
99 Memoir '44
100 Railways of the World

50 years:
1 Go
2 Crokinole
3 Chess
4 Cribbage
5 Mahjong
6 Xiangqi
7 Bridge
8 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
9 Acquire
10 Shogi
11 Poker
12 Dune
13 Civilization
14 Diplomacy
15 Die Macher
16 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
17 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
18 Advanced Squad Leader
19 El Grande
20 Tichu
21 Squad Leader
22 Up Front
23 Tigris & Euphrates
24 Puerto Rico
25 Magic: The Gathering
26 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
27 Modern Art
28 Twilight Struggle
29 The Republic of Rome
30 Paths of Glory
31 Blood Bowl - 3rd
32 Space Hulk
33 Britannia
34 Can't Stop
35 Power Grid
36 Catan
37 The Princes of Florence
38 Samurai
39 Ra
40 RoboRally
41 Cosmic Encounter (1977)
42 Liar's Dice
43 Ambush!
44 PitchCar
45 Eat Poop You Cat
46 Carcassonne
47 Titan
48 Sleuth
49 For Sale
50 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
51 Age of Steam
52 Battle Line
53 Tikal
54 Wizard
55 Ikusa
56 Caylus
57 Roads & Boats
58 Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815
59 HeroQuest
60 Twilight Imperium 3rd
61 War of the Ring -1st
62 History of the World
63 Formula Dé
64 Merchant of Venus
65 Agricola
66 Ogre
67 Magic Realm
68 Medici
69 Junta
70 The Russian Campaign
71 Bohnanza
72 Hive
73 The Civil War
74 Wooden Ships & Iron Men
75 A House Divided
76 Hare & Tortoise
77 Goa
78 Lost Cities
79 Taj Mahal
80 YINSH
81 Loopin' Louie
82 Empires in Arms
83 Kremlin
84 Rommel in the Desert
85 Brass
86 Empire Builder
87 Time's Up!
88 BattleTech
89 Ticket to Ride
90 Citadels
91 Memoir '44
92 Railways of the World
93 Bausack
94 6 nimmt!
95 World in Flames
96 Netrunner
97 Ticket to Ride: Europe
98 Chinatown
99 Through the Desert
100 Torres

25 Years:
1 Go
2 Crokinole
3 Chess
4 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
5 Cribbage
6 Acquire
7 Bridge
8 Mahjong
9 Dune
10 El Grande
11 Civilization
12 Die Macher
13 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
14 Advanced Squad Leader
15 Tichu
16 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
17 Puerto Rico
18 Xiangqi
19 Tigris & Euphrates
20 Diplomacy
21 Twilight Struggle
22 Poker
23 Up Front
24 Magic: The Gathering
25 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
26 Shogi
27 Squad Leader
28 Paths of Glory
29 Power Grid
30 Modern Art
31 The Republic of Rome
32 Blood Bowl - 3rd
33 The Princes of Florence
34 Ra
35 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
36 Samurai
37 Catan
38 Space Hulk
39 Carcassonne
40 Caylus
41 RoboRally
42 Britannia
43 Age of Steam
44 Agricola
45 Twilight Imperium 3rd
46 PitchCar
47 War of the Ring -1st
48 Battle Line
49 For Sale
50 Tikal
51 Can't Stop
52 Roads & Boats
53 Liar's Dice
54 Brass
55 Goa
56 Hive
57 Ambush!
58 Eat Poop You Cat
59 YINSH
60 Cosmic Encounter (1977)
61 Railways of the World
62 Ticket to Ride
63 Bohnanza
64 Memoir '44
65 Ticket to Ride: Europe
66 Medici
67 Titan
68 Lost Cities
69 Taj Mahal
70 History of the World
71 Formula Dé
72 Race for the Galaxy
73 HeroQuest
74 Wizard
75 Ikusa
76 Le Havre
77 Merchant of Venus
78 Citadels
79 Commands & Colors: Ancients
80 Time's Up!
81 Combat Commander: Europe
82 Sleuth
83 Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook
84 Chinatown
85 Hammer of the Scots
86 Torres
87 Glory to Rome
88 Through the Desert
89 Netrunner
90 Loopin' Louie
91 Napoleon: The Waterloo Campaign, 1815
92 The Civil War
93 6 nimmt!
94 Amun-Re
95 Magic Realm
96 Wallenstein - 1st
97 DVONN
98 Union Pacific
99 Ogre
100 Battlestar Galactica

10 years:
1 Crokinole
2 Go
3 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
4 Twilight Struggle
5 Puerto Rico
6 El Grande
7 Acquire
8 Tigris & Euphrates
9 Chess
10 Tichu
11 Power Grid
12 Die Macher
13 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
14 Dune
15 Civilization
16 Advanced Squad Leader
17 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
18 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
19 Paths of Glory
20 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
21 Agricola
22 Magic: The Gathering
23 Bridge
24 Caylus
25 The Princes of Florence
26 Cribbage
27 Twilight Imperium 3rd
28 Ra
29 Brass
30 War of the Ring -1st
31 Up Front
32 Age of Steam
33 Modern Art
34 Samurai
35 Carcassonne
36 Mahjong
37 Blood Bowl - 3rd
38 Diplomacy
39 Le Havre
40 The Republic of Rome
41 Goa
42 Race for the Galaxy
43 Catan
44 Battle Line
45 Squad Leader
46 Railways of the World
47 Ticket to Ride: Europe
48 Tikal
49 Ticket to Ride
50 Memoir '44
51 YINSH
52 Commands & Colors: Ancients
53 RoboRally
54 Roads & Boats
55 For Sale
56 Hive
57 Combat Commander: Europe
58 Space Hulk
59 PitchCar
60 Battlestar Galactica
61 Dominion
62 Pandemic
63 Glory to Rome
64 Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook
65 Dominion: Intrigue
66 Britannia
67 Shogun
68 Taj Mahal
69 The Castles of Burgundy
70 Imperial
71 Stone Age
72 Lost Cities
73 Bohnanza
74 Mage Knight Board Game
75 Citadels
76 Ticket to Ride: Nordic Countries
77 Here I Stand
78 7 Wonders
79 Hammer of the Scots
80 Terra Mystica
81 Amun-Re
82 Saint Petersburg
83 Time's Up!
84 San Juan
85 Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
86 Galaxy Trucker
87 Cosmic Encounter
88 Medici
89 Eclipse
90 Dominant Species
91 Antiquity
92 Liar's Dice
93 Wallenstein - 1st
94 Xiangqi
95 Poker
96 Chinatown
97 Can't Stop
98 DVONN
99 Arkham Horror
100 Torres

5 years:
1 Crokinole
2 Twilight Struggle
3 Go
4 Puerto Rico
5 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
6 El Grande
7 Power Grid
8 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
9 Agricola
10 Tigris & Euphrates
11 Tichu
12 Caylus
13 Twilight Imperium 3rd
14 Brass
15 Paths of Glory
16 Acquire
17 Die Macher
18 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
19 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
20 Le Havre
21 Dune
22 Advanced Squad Leader
23 War of the Ring -1st
24 Civilization
25 The Princes of Florence
26 Race for the Galaxy
27 Magic: The Gathering
28 Age of Steam
29 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
30 Ra
31 The Castles of Burgundy
32 Goa
33 Terra Mystica
34 Railways of the World
35 Carcassonne
36 Battlestar Galactica
37 Ticket to Ride: Europe
38 Samurai
39 Mage Knight Board Game
40 Commands & Colors: Ancients
41 Chess
42 Dominion
43 Combat Commander: Europe
44 Dominion: Intrigue
45 Ticket to Ride
46 Memoir '44
47 Pandemic
48 7 Wonders
49 Battle Line
50 Modern Art
51 Eclipse
52 Blood Bowl - 3rd
53 YINSH
54 Stone Age
55 Up Front
56 Dominant Species
57 Tikal
58 Catan
59 Bridge
60 Hive
61 Shogun
62 Glory to Rome
63 Imperial
64 The Republic of Rome
65 War of the Ring -second
66 Roads & Boats
67 Ticket to Ride: Nordic Countries
68 Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook
69 Cosmic Encounter
70 For Sale
71 Here I Stand
72 Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
73 Galaxy Trucker
74 RoboRally
75 Android: Netrunner
76 Robinson Crusoe: Adventures on the Cursed Island
77 PitchCar
78 Chaos in the Old World
79 Troyes
80 Cribbage
81 Steam
82 Squad Leader
83 Caverna: The Cave Farmers
84 Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar
85 Taj Mahal
86 Space Alert
87 Diplomacy
88 Saint Petersburg
89 San Juan
90 1960: The Making of the President
91 Space Hulk
92 Amun-Re
93 Hansa Teutonica
94 Hammer of the Scots
95 Keyflower
96 Antiquity
97 Jaipur
98 Lost Cities
99 Trajan
100 Arkham Horror
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Kevin Salch
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How are you measuring "regency" Just because a game is old does not
 
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Andrew Bartosh

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What about counteracting legacy effects, though? Popularity often has a perpetuating effect as well.
 
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Christian Gienger
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I don't understand your list. What exactly are those years referring to?
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Gavin Robinson
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I'm also confused that something like Backgammon isn't present. Its been years since I played it, but I do remember it being quite popular when I was younger.

Again as others have mentioned, what is the context of your list? Sales? Popularity? Broad use?
 
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chris thatcher
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Very strange list
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John Smith
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For me these lists demonstrate that there is no perfect way to rank games on BGG.
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Mark Watson
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Don't really see any point in having a list where more than half the entries are no longer in print ...
 
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JonMichael Rasmus
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As far as I can tell, the top 100 needs to be bifurcated: one list representing the best games of all time, the other representing the exciting new games that are popular right now. Both lists have merit.

This my take on the former:

[ 5.5 x (n years) + Geek Rating x (m years) ]/ (n+m)

where n is the number listed above the chart
and m is the number of years since release (or 2018 - release year)

-The current chart is this equation where n = 0.

The latter is harder to build from known stats, but would be very interesting as well. As it would provide a more likely reflection of what's 'in print.' But we tend to blur these ideas together now, and they should be properly separated.

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JonMichael Rasmus
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Moodyb wrote:
I'm also confused that something like Backgammon isn't present. Its been years since I played it, but I do remember it being quite popular when I was younger.

Again as others have mentioned, what is the context of your list? Sales? Popularity? Broad use?


If this list were assuredly done sitewide, Backgamoon would certainly make the list. However, I only reevaluated the top 1000 and Backgammon is 1010.
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Nick Meenachan
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Too bad this thread kinda died. Would have liked to have seen more discussion, because I like where you were going with this. I hadn't looked at the Top 100 for a long time, until last month when I needed to for research.

I was completely shocked by what I saw. As far as I'm concerned, we either implement your idea - make the current rankings a "Hotness" list and have an accompanying greatest of all time list - or this entire system is utterly worthless.
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Dennis _
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jmsr525 wrote:
As far as I can tell, the top 100 needs to be bifurcated: one list representing the best games of all time, the other representing the exciting new games that are popular right now. Both lists have merit.

This my take on the former:

[ 5.5 x (n years) + Geek Rating x (m years) ]/ (n+m)

where n is the number listed above the chart
and m is the number of years since release (or 2018 - release year)

-The current chart is this equation where n = 0.

The latter is harder to build from known stats, but would be very interesting as well. As it would provide a more likely reflection of what's 'in print.' But we tend to blur these ideas together now, and they should be properly separated.



Am I understanding this right, that n gives each games a number of years with average rating prior to their release? A problem would be the arbitrariness of n then.

In my opinion, each list for n>5 looks kind of artificial. Maybe even n=2 would be an option to filter out the worst distortions, might you add such a list?
 
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Alexandre P.
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Seeing the "cult of the new" and to distinguish it to the hotness, what about:
1) working on giving games a precise release date,
2) forbidding ratings for a game that is not a least (for example) 6 months old ?

We would avoid the tester votes, the anticipation votes, the backers votes and collect votes only once the game is available.

Of course, some problems remain: the availability varies a lot from a region to an other, you can't prevent people to rate everything 10 (or 1), the rating/possession ratio could drop ...
 
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Matt Stokes
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I think many of the games in the past several years making it to the top of the list is because of the growth in the board game community as a whole. Someone who just got into board games in 2012-2015, will most likely only play and rate games that are currently being talked about (current hotness). They are less likely to play games pre-2010 and thus cause the older games to drop down.

Edit: I am a prime example of not playing many games on the top 100 that haven't come out in the last 5 years.
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JonMichael Rasmus
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mls5stokes wrote:
I think many of the games in the past several years making it to the top of the list is because of the growth in the board game community as a whole. Someone who just got into board games in 2012-2015, will most likely only play and rate games that are currently being talked about (current hotness). They are less likely to play games pre-2010 and thus cause the older games to drop down.

Edit: I am a prime example of not playing many games on the top 100 that haven't come out in the last 5 years.


But that's why it is a good reason to separate the two kinds of charts. The #1 song in the country is Bad and Boujee, the #1 song on the Rolling Stone top 500 songs list is Like a Rolling Stone. Both lists are meaningful and have value. But combining those two into one list gives the IMDb effect where you have to ask is La La Land really the 27th best movie ever? Is Hacksaw Ridge really a top 100 movie of all time? Or could it be recency effect that besmirches the overall listing? http://www.imdb.com/chart/top?ref_=nv_mv_250_6

Here, BTW, is the top 100 with n=2 (I expanded to the top 2000 to pick up a couple extras as noted above).
1 Twilight Struggle
2 Puerto Rico
3 Through the Ages: A Story of Civilization
4 Agricola
5 Power Grid
6 Crokinole
7 El Grande
8 Sherlock Holmes Consulting Detective
9 Terra Mystica
10 Brass
11 Caylus
12 The Castles of Burgundy
13 Le Havre
14 Go
15 Tigris & Euphrates
16 Twilight Imperium - 3
17 Mage Knight Board Game
18 Race for the Galaxy
19 Eclipse
20 War of the Ring - 2
21 Paths of Glory
22 War of the Ring - 1
23 7 Wonders
24 Caverna: The Cave Farmers
25 Battlestar Galactica
26 Tichu
27 Dominion: Intrigue
28 Pandemic Legacy: Season 1
29 Dominion
30 Android: Netrunner
31 Dominant Species
32 Robinson Crusoe: Adventures on the Cursed Island
33 The Princes of Florence
34 Hannibal: Rome vs. Carthage
35 Pandemic
36 Railways of the World
37 Age of Steam
38 Commands & Colors: Ancients
39 Tzolk'in: The Mayan Calendar
40 Goa
41 Ticket to Ride: Europe
42 Combat Commander: Europe
43 Die Macher
44 1830: Railways & Robber Barons
45 Stone Age
46 Keyflower
47 Ra
48 Through the Ages: A New Story of Civilization
49 Acquire
50 Advanced Squad Leader
51 Magic: The Gathering
52 Ticket to Ride
53 Memoir '44
54 Carcassonne
55 Dune
56 Troyes
57 Civilization
58 Cosmic Encounter
59 Trajan
60 Lords of Waterdeep
61 Star Wars: X-Wing Miniatures Game
62 Samurai
63 Chaos in the Old World
64 Ticket to Ride: Nordic Countries
65 YINSH
66 Shogun
67 Star Wars: Imperial Assault
68 Imperial
69 Steam
70 Battle Line
71 Glory to Rome
72 Age of Empires III: The Age of Discovery
73 Survive: Escape from Atlantis!
74 A Game of Thrones: The Board Game - 2
75 Concordia
76 Galaxy Trucker
77 Ora et Labora
78 Eldritch Horror
79 Here I Stand
80 Hansa Teutonica
81 Jaipur
82 Space Alert
83 Blood Bowl: Living Rulebook
84 Descent: Journeys in the Dark - 2
85 The Resistance: Avalon
86 Hive
87 Tikal
88 Blood Bowl - 3
89 1960: The Making of the President
90 Modern Art
91 Kemet
92 Cyclades
93 7 Wonders Duel
94 Orléans
95 Suburbia
96 Roads & Boats
97 The Lord of the Rings: The Card Game
98 Catan
99 The Resistance
100 Runewars
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Under the paving stones, the beach
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Archonsod wrote:
Don't really see any point in having a list where more than half the entries are no longer in print ...


With a handful of exceptions (Dune), most of them aren't going for silly money in the secondary market.
 
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Dennis _
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Thanks for that list with n=2! But this shows me that I don't like that method, even for such a small number of n. The reason is the relatively low rank of Pan Leg (28) and TTA 2 (48). When I'm complaining about the actual rankings, these two games on top or at least within the Top 10 aren't my problem. Problem is that right now we have 5 out 7 top ranked titles from 2015 or later! Maybe n=1 works, but that would still leave the method feeling kind of arbitrary.
 
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Joe White
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I feel like this discussion fails to take into account that the community of BGG is changing(growing) and the average taste for that community is changing as well.

Giving any weight to when a game is released (an arbitrary value which is further complicated by reprints) fails to allow the list to adapt to these changes.

A game that has been popular for a long time may or may not be better than a newer game and the only representation of that is strictly user ratings. There may be some merit to only allowing ratings once released but there are reviewers and convention goers whose ratings pre-release might be valid.
 
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Dennis _
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Bulkoth wrote:
I feel like this discussion fails to take into account that the community of BGG is changing(growing) and the average taste for that community is changing as well.


That's true. It would be interesting to see the number of users and votes over the years. Does anybody have such data?

It's a pity that all these new users don't know any games from before 2015.
 
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