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Talavera» Forums » Rules

Subject: ? Attack Stoppage whilst Accepting New Orders ? rss

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Jonathan Townsend
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What would you do under these circumstances : Two Attack Stoppage rolls were failed the same turn these Commands came under new Orders. Since Att.St. occurs before Order Acceptance should they go ahead with their new Orders, or, since they Emergency Withdrawal in the later Movement Phase and then go into No Orders must they in effect discard two sets of 'implemented' orders?
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Loris Pagnotta
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I think they go with new order after "Emergency Withdrawal", because the "Attack stoppage" is intended to stop the troop's attack while the new order is given to the General.
However a good question and the rule book don't give any clear answer.
 
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Jonathan Townsend
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The trouble is both Orders, the old and the new, are Engage Orders.

I'm going to try and answer my own question.

In a case of this kind one is asking because one is trying to discern the design intent at a point where it has not been crystallised into a rule/instruction. If one were not asking a question as to this design intent one would be regulating the situation without further ado, either according to own intent or someone elses'.

In drying to divine design intent we are attempting to invoke the spirit of the rules, the intention and effect that is meant to come out through the incarnation via rules/instructions. In lieu of having the designer on hand and able to reconnect to the original intentions we try to gather the spirit of the rules by using our intentions in playing such a game, depending on their coincidence with the designers intentions based upon our buying into a game they made. Their intentions have some confluence with ours within the subject matter.

So, the Attack Stoppage roll intends to show the moment when a Commander, in the heat and confusion of battle deems it his responsibility to save the Command from apparent large danger by decisive disengagement.
If, within this maelstrom, an Officer arrived with new instructions from the Army Chief to continue engaging but in a different aspect from the one the on-spot Commander is trying to extricate his direly threatened Command from it is quite unlikely that he will turn about at once and re-engage straight-away.
Much more likely he would move his Command out of 'certain' harms way, check for situation and then contemplate the next move, higher orders or no higher orders.

So the spirit of the rules would say that Attack Stoppage goes ahead even if you are told to turn around and fight North instead of the South you have just decided to Withdraw from.

However, we are also playing games where the spirit is also to invoke some kind of heroic endeavours that lift us out of the meagre opportunities our everyday lives afford us. Else we would play whist and chess. For reason of this spirit I would also say that in the situation we have, upon agreement by both the gods(players) involved in the match, a roll for Local Initiative may be applied to see if, by some chance, the on-spot Commander is able to grasp glory from out of despair upon receipt of the new Urgency sent to him by Request of the overall Commander.
 
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Loris Pagnotta
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I think that an "attack stoppage" is when men, not the commander, decide that the situation is without hope and break the engagement. This can make a subtle difference.
 
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Jonathan Townsend
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It could be, that's a good point. That's a way to see it.

The designer wrote (6.7) " Attack Stoppage represents an attack's failure in the attacking Commander's mind."

The player, representing the Commander, can call an Emergency Withdrawal under certain conditions, but Attack Stoppage is meant to be out of the player's control, and could be seen as out of the Commander's control. If the men are cutting and running he may have to call for a retreat and re-group.

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paul taylor
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Gentlemen,
Whilst you are here, do any of you have a view on the following point?
Latour-maubourg and Milhaud each have 24 battalions. Page 25 of scenario book.
On the roster L-M has 32 boxes, M has 23. This seems strange.
Any opinions?
Paul
 
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Jonathan Townsend
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Apologies but I don't actually have Talavera, I posted my question on several NBS forums in the hope of a quick and/or comprehensive reply.
 
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russell lance
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not sure which version of rules you are using. In the newest 3.2 look at page 11 right side bar for your answer
 
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