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BattleLore (Second Edition)» Forums » Variants

Subject: simplified skirsmish rules rss

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Sinnerius Damned
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Because of game being too complicated for my gaming partner, I came with simplified gaming rules. Please let me know about any enhancements You would recommend.

1. NO LORE
2. No command cards (activation one unit after another)
3. VP at the end of the round (all units activated)
4. VP for every unit killed
5. 6 side dice instead of BL Dice
All units hit on 4+
Weak units hit on 5+
Every 6 can be used for attack AND commander effect.
Every 1 can be used for PUSH
 
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Sinnerius wrote:
Please let me know about any enhancements You would recommend.


Your proposal looks like an entirely different game - one that looks very unattractive to me. It also looks like it would severely throw off game balance. For starters, ranged units would be much too powerful if they have the same chance of hitting as melee units.

It's your game of course and you can do with it what you like, but I would recommend to try to use the options in the official rules that simplify the game:
Start with playing the simplified learning scenario from the rulebook. It is really, well, simple. It doesn't have lore cards like your proposal. Play that a few times. If you think your gaming partner really can't handle more, stick with it. But you could also try out if your gaming partner really can't handle the complete setup after a few games with the learning scenario.
Note that you don't have to muster armies freely, you can use the army cards (see p. 17 of the rulebook), which should make it a lot easier for beginners. P. 10 of the Reference Book also has some optional rules that could simplify the game for you:
The "preset starting hands" variant gets rid of the need to choose 4 out of 6 command cards at the start of the game and makes you start the game with only simple command cards without special effects.
The "campaign variant" decreases the choice of scenario cards (to none in the first game or for the looser of the previous game and 1 out of 2 for the winner of the last game).
A simple house rule would be to completely get rid of the choice of scenario cards and just draw one for each player. In that case I would strongly recommend to at least allow a choice of 1 of the 3 army cards each faction has in the base game, otherwise you could end up with a really unfair combination of scenario and army card.
Another sensible, considerably simplifying house rule would be to leave out the lore cards like in the learning scenario. The learning scenario instead allows the active player to exchange 4 lore tokens for 1 VP token during the VP Step of his Upkeep Phase (see p. 9 of the rulebook). (Leaving out lore altogether, i. e. playing that the lore side of the die has no effect would make you unable to get rid of stun or poison markers.)

If your gaming partner really still can't handle any of that, then I would say BattleLore is simply not the right game for them... I'd settle for another one in that case.
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Sinnerius Damned
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Thanks for the reply.

After Your reply about 6 sided dice D6 is out of question.

I know it would be a different game, but I am hoping for the one that will hit the table. Because I do not know, what we did wrong, but it just did not work.

1. Play: My co player draw only such command cards which she could not use (unit type speciffic and she didn/t have that type)
2. Used the predefined armies she had one more army and +2 lore and obliterated me really fast.
3. Map was made so I could get hold of both VP's and just by keeping them I won.
4 th. Won by lucky/unlucky rolls.

Trying to come with something less luck dependant, quicker. I do not know, maybe it is my problem with commands and colors.
Please do not take it offensive, just trying to find another use of something that looks so far broken to me.
 
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Sinnerius wrote:
Trying to come with something less luck dependant, quicker. I do not know, maybe it is my problem with commands and colors.
Please do not take it offensive, just trying to find another use of something that looks so far broken to me.


Your variant proposal doesn't look any less luck dependent to me than the official rules, it still has a dice rolling mechanic at its core.

If the issue is that you don't like games in which fights are resolved by luck dependent dice rolls, then maybe you yourself should look for a different game. There are lots of them out there with lots of different mechanics!
I would recommend Antike Duellum in that case, a very good 2 player game with simple rules which is still very deep if you want to play it well. Fighting between units happens without dice, units are simply exchanged 1 against 1. It is highly skill based, a player who is considerably better at this game than his opponent will practically always win it. Only if both players are equally skilled will the remaining small luck factor of the game (the order in which its event cards are drawn) have to come to bear.
 
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Darador wrote:
I would recommend Antike Duellum in that case, a very good 2 player game with simple rules which is still very deep if you want to play it well. Fighting between units happens without dice, units are simply exchanged 1 against 1. It is highly skill based, a player who is considerably better at this game than his opponent will practically always win it. Only if both players are equally skilled will the remaining small luck factor of the game (the order in which its event cards are drawn) have to come to bear.


By the way, these are the 2 sides of the "luck vs. skill coin" in games.

Skill based games are fairer, but if you play them with someone who is at a considerably different skill level in this game, it will be obvious who is going to win the game up front and usually neither of you will have that much fun. At least if you play more than a few times.

Luck based games can be unfair ("I only lost because of that really unlucky roll although I did everything right!"), but the very fact that you can reasonably loose it against someone who is worse at the game than you means that you can play it with more different people and still have suspenseful and thus fun games.
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Garrett
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Laredo
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Sinnerius wrote:
Thanks for the reply.

After Your reply about 6 sided dice D6 is out of question.

I know it would be a different game, but I am hoping for the one that will hit the table. Because I do not know, what we did wrong, but it just did not work.

1. Play: My co player draw only such command cards which she could not use (unit type speciffic and she didn/t have that type)

This is partially a luck issue, but also a skill issue. If you choose to use cards that move the maximum number of units each turn, you will run into a situation where every card in your hand is useless or nearly-useless. It takes experience and skill to mitigate that by seeing several turns ahead. Sometimes you say, "I really want to make an offensive push in the left section, but I don't have the units to do it, so I'm going to take two turns getting units into that section before I play my Attack Left card."


Sinnerius wrote:
2. Used the predefined armies she had one more army and +2 lore and obliterated me really fast.
3. Map was made so I could get hold of both VP's and just by keeping them I won.


Interesting thing here is that you are both winning games. Now, so far it seems like those are shut-out victories where the victor got the lead and dominated the entire game. I can understand how that can be frustrating, but at least it's somewhat even. For #2, an extra unit and a couple lore should not mean the difference between victory and defeat. For #3, that's the point of the game. It's her job to push you off of those victory point hexes. I have had a couple recent games where I was down by up to 3-5 points for the first couple rounds but I was able to make a come-back and win both games. In both circumstances, I was facing new players. If I were a new player, I probably would have been obliterated, but having more experience, I was able to form a counter-strategy that helped me (with a little bit of luck) come out victorious. Both games came down to the last turn where if my roll went my way, I would win; if it didn't, my opponent would win. So yes, the games were decided by a die roll, but they were such close matches and I could tell that decisions we made really affected us being in the situations we were at the end of those games.

Sinnerius wrote:
4 th. Won by lucky/unlucky rolls.

This happens; it's just part of the game. However, there are ways to mitigate the effect of bad rolls. Sometimes, you don't want to attack. If you have a full-health unit on a VP hex and you've ordered them because you had an extra unit to order from your command card, sometimes you don't want them to attack the adjacent enemy unit because if they do, they might get countered and pushed off of the VP hex. And while they might attack you on their next turn, they also might not because of the command cards they have in their hand.

Another way to mitigate rolls is to think hard about positioning. If you can pin an enemy between two of your units or between one of your units and impassable terrain, you've increased your chances of dealing damage with those dice. Positioning is very important.

Sinnerius wrote:
Trying to come with something less luck dependant, quicker. I do not know, maybe it is my problem with commands and colors.
Please do not take it offensive, just trying to find another use of something that looks so far broken to me.

I think that you're just not used to the Commands and Colors system. I think it's a great system, but you have to learn what it does and does not let you do. If you are expecting the same skirmish experience you would from other games, you are likely to be disappointed. But when you embrace the constraints placed upon you by the C&C system, it becomes very strategic and very enjoyable. But that does take a little investment, and if your gaming partner does not want to invest that time and thinking into improving their skills and experience with the system, then it may not be right for you. But I heartily encourage you to give it another try.
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Patrick Kloiber
Austria
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If you wanna play Battlelore on a good niveau I highly recommend this for reading:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/4/10/lady-lu...

It always helped people I asked to try this game with me since they realize what they have to look for.
 
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