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Subject: Case 2 (Flesh & Blood) Sanity Penalties - HUGE Errors? rss

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Aaron Patterson
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So when tallying up our score on Investigation 2, when we got to the Sanity Penalties we noticed that nearly all of them were irrelevant (or non-existent/impossible) to this case, at least in the context in which they were presented. And likewise, some MAJOR locations/events that seemed to perfectly fit the context of the penalty requirements were missing entirely.

Here is the quote from the Scoring Section about Sanity Penalties:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Quote:

SANITY PENALTIES
If you traveled to Western Dorm (C18) or Hangman's Hill (M2) or Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee Apartments (M67) at night take a 1 point penalty for each location you visited at night (thus encountering a vampire).



But most of this contradicts what actually happened in this case:

Below are the reasons why the printed info seems erroneous or irrelevant. Also below is missing info that seems like it should be incredibly relevant, but wasn't included:

ERRORS
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Reasons Why Those 3 Locations Are Meaningless to This Penalty:
Western Dorm (C18): You do not encounter a vampire, but instead you find a skinless corpse with a note, but no vampires or hostile enemies are around. Still a ghastly seen, for sure, but the penalty says "thus encountering a vampire" which did not happen here, even at night.
Hangman's Hill (M2): This is not even a location you can visit in this case. So it is impossible to ever run into this penalty situation. There is no listed entry for this location in Investigation 2, nor are there any events that come to pass here.
Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee Apartments (M67): This one I debate, but while you felt an odd force beckoning you into the basement when you visit at night, you do not encounter a vampire or any hostile enemy. Armitage knocks you out from behind to stop you from proceeding into possible danger, and brings you to his office for safety before you ever encounter a vampire or hostile enemy. Also, if you investigated Case 2 fully, you learn that the main vampire (Noah Cahill) is only in the Apartments basement during the day when the basement door is sealed, and he is at the Unnameable House at night transcribing the text of the Necronomicon onto the skin of his victims. So how would you encounter him at the Apartments basement at night if he's not there? It's conflicting information.


MISSING INFO
Spoiler (click to reveal)

These Locations Should Be Used For That Penalty, But Aren't:
Tenement Buildings (L14): While visiting at night, this is where you encounter the vampire Ellie Hathaway face to face, and the event specifically calls out "Advance the Time Tracker one additional space to account for the time lost due to your encounter with a vampire" (emphasis added). So since the entire point of the penalty is due to encountering a vampire when visiting certain locations at night, you would think this location, the only one that specifically points out that you encountered a vampire, would be one of the locations included in the final scoring sanity penalties. Very bizarre that it's not even mentioned.
Unnameable House (M3): While visiting at night, this is where you encounter the main vampire Noah Cahill, and he attacks you. Yet it's not even brought up in the sanity penalties at all. Even thought he sanity penalties are supposed to account for encountering vampires while visiting locations at night. Odd that this very obvious location & event are not included.


Anyway, this vast amount of errors, or downright inconsistent information surprised us. Has anyone else run into this, or has anyone concluded that the printed info is accurate by one way or another?

If this is already included in the documented Errata, I apologize. I searched for Case 2 info and didn't find clear info about this issue.
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Nicola Zee
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PopoBot wrote:
So when tallying up our score on Investigation 2, when we got to the Sanity Penalties we noticed that nearly all of them were irrelevant (or non-existent/impossible) to this case, at least in the context in which they were presented. And likewise, some MAJOR locations/events that seemed to perfectly fit the context of the penalty requirements were missing entirely.

Here is the quote from the Scoring Section about Sanity Penalties:
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Quote:

SANITY PENALTIES
If you traveled to Western Dorm (C18) or Hangman's Hill (M2) or Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee Apartments (M67) at night take a 1 point penalty for each location you visited at night (thus encountering a vampire).



But most of this contradicts what actually happened in this case:

Below are the reasons why the printed info seems erroneous or irrelevant. Also below is missing info that seems like it should be incredibly relevant, but wasn't included:

ERRORS
Spoiler (click to reveal)

Reasons Why Those 3 Locations Are Meaningless to This Penalty:
Western Dorm (C18): You do not encounter a vampire, but instead you find a skinless corpse with a note, but no vampires or hostile enemies are around. Still a ghastly seen, for sure, but the penalty says "thus encountering a vampire" which did not happen here, even at night.
Hangman's Hill (M2): This is not even a location you can visit in this case. So it is impossible to ever run into this penalty situation. There is no listed entry for this location in Investigation 2, nor are there any events that come to pass here.
Nathaniel Wingate Peaslee Apartments (M67): This one I debate, but while you felt an odd force beckoning you into the basement when you visit at night, you do not encounter a vampire or any hostile enemy. Armitage knocks you out from behind to stop you from proceeding into possible danger, and brings you to his office for safety before you ever encounter a vampire or hostile enemy. Also, if you investigated Case 2 fully, you learn that the main vampire (Noah Cahill) is only in the Apartments basement during the day when the basement door is sealed, and he is at the Unnameable House at night transcribing the text of the Necronomicon onto the skin of his victims. So how would you encounter him at the Apartments basement at night if he's not there? It's conflicting information.


MISSING INFO
Spoiler (click to reveal)

These Locations Should Be Used For That Penalty, But Aren't:
Tenement Buildings (L14): While visiting at night, this is where you encounter the vampire Ellie Hathaway face to face, and the event specifically calls out "Advance the Time Tracker one additional space to account for the time lost due to your encounter with a vampire" (emphasis added). So since the entire point of the penalty is due to encountering a vampire when visiting certain locations at night, you would think this location, the only one that specifically points out that you encountered a vampire, would be one of the locations included in the final scoring sanity penalties. Very bizarre that it's not even mentioned.
Unnameable House (M3): While visiting at night, this is where you encounter the main vampire Noah Cahill, and he attacks you. Yet it's not even brought up in the sanity penalties at all. Even thought he sanity penalties are supposed to account for encountering vampires while visiting locations at night. Odd that this very obvious location & event are not included.


Anyway, this vast amount of errors, or downright inconsistent information surprised us. Has anyone else run into this, or has anyone concluded that the printed info is accurate by one way or another?

If this is already included in the documented Errata, I apologize. I searched for Case 2 info and didn't find clear info about this issue.

With one of the locations it is specified in the documented Errata
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A: Substitute The Unnameable (M3) for Hangman’s Hill (M2)


With the following locations:
Spoiler (click to reveal)
Visiting location C18 in the evening leads to Supplementary Encounter 7 where I think you eventually encounter the vampire and pass out. This I will admit is a guess with your memory wiped of the encounter.

Visiting location M67 in the evening leads to Supplementary Encounter 11 where you encounter the vampire immediately.


So, there is only one issue and that issue is indeed covered by the errata.

There are a number issues to Mythos Tales but none of the 3 you have raised are issues as far as I am aware.

If you do not believe me, please check the following:
1. The latest Errata
2. Supplementary Encounter 7
3. Supplementary Encounter 11

Sorry, I forgot to add the following:
[ADDED]
Spoiler (click to reveal)
With Encounter 11, you encounter the vampire in the late evening before he has left to go to his other location. Although I will admit the text about encountering the vampire at night is confusing. Maybe it would have been better to add encountering the vampire in the evening or at night.

[EDITED AS ENCOUNTER 7 IS DEBATABLE]

 
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Nicola Zee
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On the subject of Supplementary Encounter 9 I do agree it is odd that there is no sanity penalty for encountering a vampire. On the other hand, it is just about OK as it's not the main vampire. It may be the case the main vampire is a lot more powerful and scary. In any case, this is, also, not a huge issue - more like a niggle

 
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Aaron Patterson
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Yeah it just felt weird.

We went through every location and supplementary encounter, and the only 2 where you explicitly encounter a vampire aren't mentioned in the sanity penalties. And the two supplementary encounters you mention do not have any explicit encounters with a vampire. While players can imagine an encounter took place and you just don't remember it, it seems like a stretch when other explicit encounters in the storyline already exist.
 
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Nicola Zee
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PopoBot wrote:
Yeah it just felt weird.

We went through every location and supplementary encounter, and the only 2 where you explicitly encounter a vampire aren't mentioned in the sanity penalties. And the two supplementary encounters you mention do not have any explicit encounters with a vampire. While players can imagine an encounter took place and you just don't remember it, it seems like a stretch when other explicit encounters in the storyline already exist.

The following errata must be applied
Spoiler (click to reveal)
A: Substitute The Unnameable (M3) for Hangman’s Hill (M2)


Once this is done, the only issues really are that (as you have implied) the encounters with the vampire are not made explicit. It requires deduction (and perhaps hindsight) to infer what happened.

Spoiler (click to reveal)
Supplementary Encounter 6
The vampire leaves a message for Armitage to be passed on by the investigators. He, then, mesmerises them,so he can escape but he does not kill them. He does not kill them because how will they then pass on the message?

Supplementary Encounter 11
The vampire mesmerises the investigators but Armitage saves them.


Now it may seem odd it's not made explicit but I don't mind that. With the stories not everything needs to be made explicit. Sometimes its nice to have to use a bit of deduction (and perhaps guesswork) to infer what's going on. It is a game that has elements of investigation and deduction. With a story about a vampire who can mess with people's minds, it's not unreasonable that some confusion will result.




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