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Subject: Fighting the beetle knight help? (spoilers) rss

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Nick Wirtz
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So, my group's been fighting him a bit, but haven't really figured out what to do about him. We don't have surge, but have a lot of damage output, including a beacon shield, riot mace, and some digging claws (so it isn't about those super-tough locations... well, not their toughness), and can manage around 6-7 armor on everyone

We usually end up using about 4-5 of the pillars to prevent hits and have started to figure out just hoping to get him throwing the ball at someone at an improbably high distance, but the combination of damage that circumvents everything except raw armor or damage reduction (no dodge, block, evasion), and the number of attacks that are spending their time just stripping off pseudo-impervious locations, and finally the trap damage, has meant that we're fighting the clock on those ball throws but have had some serious trouble juggling wound output vs. that trap (which further lowers it).

We've been losing 1 survivor per fight (usually to the trap) though could definitely have lost more.

Is this something where you just need an insane amount of armor and/or surge (i.e. we just don't have the pieces for a safe fight, or is there some strategy we've been missing? We're just having trouble picturing how we'd possible hit a level 2 after succeeding but struggling each time on level 1's.
 
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Montgomery Mullen
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For the DBK, I feel like you really need surge and dash both, preferably with a solid bank of survival or survival replenishment. It's extremely hard to outlast him because of those sources of autodamage, and you need to pile on the hurt quick. The successes we had were largely due to luck, pulse lantern, the flower knight gained fighting style and high-crit enabled survivors. It's a tough balance of control/manipulation and damage output which can go south really fast depending on what cards he ends up with. He's sort of swingy that way, like the phoenix.

Warning: level 2 is tougher and manageable but level 3 is a nightmare. We've only beaten him once (again, mostly due to a well-timed pulse lantern pile-on and a devastating weapon), but we lost two survivors in the process (BURROW).
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Emmit Svenson
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Try fighting him in one corner of the map with a support (cat's eye etc) survivor in the other corner, drawing its ball throwing.

Tumble saves you from collision with the ball much of the time, can be boosted with gear, and is easily gotten through Round Stone Training.

But really, Surge is probably what you need. Are you doing four or more wounds a turn?
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Nick Wirtz
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Thanks for the advice. Well, guess I'll put that level 2 fight out of the question without surge and just try to complete the basic set.

What gear boosts tumble other than the green boots?

Emmit, interesting to know that that strategy can work. And do you mean actual wounds or any wounds? I think we've probably averaged about 5 wounds a turn, but that includes those stupid pseudo-impervious ablative armor locations. Them and the trap have really screwed us where our actual wound output is low.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Hi Nick, I can elaborate on the usual things:

1. First, devote one or two guys to push away the ball from it, don't just rely on the pillars. Basically, you want it to begin the turn separated from the ball, to avoid the baller-throw mix.

2. If you can do the above, you can safely put there all shield specialists you have, because ground pound only bashes. Just take care to not be in line with the ball.

3. Vespertine bow foils the trap, but you can also put a giant stone face with a strategist and use any ranged weapon to do the same. A blue Savior with 8 affinities is also great, but I can see that it could be difficult to have those even with a cycloid scale armor. Otherwise, the usual deck manipulation wisdom potion/circlet helps, as well as a spear specialization to try and defuse the trap. Always trigger the trap with your tank, that should always be the only stinky survivor. If the dbk is free to target anyone, the fight devolves into a mess.

4. Quad strike anyone? If you draw that, you just pummel it to a pulp. Two rounds and a lonely ant and L1-L2 is dead.

5. Only the tank carries monster grease, nobody else is stinky. Ever.

6. Reactions are the biggest annoyance of the guy, along with impervious locations. Auto wounds go a long way, and crits do the rest.

7. Everyone must tumble. But it's best to say that you want to take everything from round stone training.

Frankly, with your equipment, you can just stick with "keep it separated from the ball and hit it once or twice a round", it's enough to win rather quickly. Your problem is the lack of surge, even the beacon shield is kind of a waste. Just don't do it the favor of hitting to of yours with a single ball throw and you did everything that is in your power, the rest is luck.
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Nick Wirtz
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Oh! I hadn't thought about pushing the ball away from it (well, I had, we'd been taking a slam set to bounce him off the ball and shove it, but that's less flexible since it's on the armor set).

We've got 2 badges, but never seem to draw quad... c'est la vie.

We've used a fair number of auto-wounds, but just hadn't been thinking about those with the DBK. That's a pretty obvious move, derp.

And yeah, we've definitely never allowed that lined up double shot.
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Well, I got obsessed with fighting it a while ago: as already said elsewhere, it is brutal, compared to the Phoenix, and even once you figure it out, it is still bloody difficult.

You need raw firepower, a plan, the right skills on the right people, and you must watch every step, because the first error will make everything a mess (especially getting a stinky hitter).

The opening is always the same: tank on the sides, so that if you are lucky the ball could keep rolling away after the first shot, everyone dashes in position at the first flow, then you make the ball go away and get out of its way, handle its HL the best you can, and if it's a L2 you also handle the AI, because you don't want to get slashed by that damn sword slash AI, then you proceed to hit it once or twice, for hopefully two wounds, best if you don't need to draw HL or you cancel reactions.

Use freely the columns to block the ball further.

If you got that disorder that when you return you can archive a resource to get +courage, abuse it, because high courage will eventually win you (death, if you don't have high understanding too) the hidden crimson jewel, while it will nullify swarm of botflies on your hitters, that is the most hated HL of the entire deck.

I mentioned round stone training overall, but I need to say again how much I love tumble, propulsion drive and carapace of will for this showdown.

Anyway, this is really all I can come up with; it's a lot, and it cannot be streamlined easily because the showdown has the tendency to spiral out of control quickly in many, many ways, so you will need a good preparation, a solid plan and the wits to adapt your strategy.

Or, you know, quad strike eight times, eat a ant, quad strike eight other times, collect pieces of insect and return home before dinner.
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Nick Wirtz
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Cool, thanks for the tips. Yeah, I think it's a very interesting fight, just it kind of ignores a ton of normal things in the game (like most defensive abilities, and many ways of wounding).

Thoughts on the effort to calcify gear? How much do you think it's worth it?
 
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Alessio Massuoli
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Well, zanbato and digging claws lose frail, so it's actually a great boon to them.

Rolling armor is ultra great when calcified, but as with green armor, nothing in any campaign is so big that it requires it to be done.

However, the bonus to ripple pattern and the insane armor are worth it, it's just that the current challenges do not require this much. Probably the GSK, or the ivory dragon, will fix that.

Last, it's easier to calcify a regenerating blade than try to get one from a L3 DBK.

Remember that you can calcify as many things you want with a single scell, if you do everything at once.
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Nick Wirtz
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Cool, good to know that the DBK set doesn't feel incomplete w/o the calcification.

Just trying to figure out if a level 2 is worth trying for, for the scell, without surge, if its worth it to gamble on calcification, or if it's just good enough without it... Leaning towards getting a phoenix set and trying again.
 
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Montgomery Mullen
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+1, calcification is worth the trouble, especially if you set things up so you can do a bunch of stuff all at one time.
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Nick Wirtz
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Yeah, we've actually got one of every mineral gear at the moment, so it seems pretty great to try for that level 2, but without surge, it just seems so rough, and that's a fairly bad gamble on the gear otherwise. We were considering trying with the gamble on everything but those greaves, since those are the hardest to get while still being valuable w/o being calcified...
 
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t3clis wrote:
Well, zanbato and digging claws lose frail, so it's actually a great boon to them.

Digging claws do not have frail when they start out. It's also worth pointing out that the DBK is pretty weak to it's own digging claws. You do still want to calcify them because they are one of the two best Katars in the game once calcified (tied with the Dragon King ones which are amazing with lots of accuracy or a Shadow Saliva Shawl from the Sunstalker).

Katar Specialisation and Grand Weapon Specialisation are the best two offensive weapon specialisations to take in vs the DBK (cancels reactions - which is key vs. DBK), Axe is the third best. Otherwise you want Shield and F&T as always, you don't need spear in this fight because a vespertine can do the job of negating the trap instead.

I'd write a lot more, but it seems people have most of how to fight the DBK down to pat. So I'll close out by mentioning the Trash Crown, it's a really good way of getting past the Century Carapace Hit Locations if too many of them pile up at once and you don't have the gear to break them. It's virtually risk free if you have a Vespertine Bow to trigger the trap. Best way to make it is by calcifying 2 to 3 Zanbatos and waiting for the unbury roll to fail on one of them.

Trash Crown + Vespertine/Spear/Crest Crown is how you beat the level 3 DBK's insane Burrow trait btw. Might as well share that now, it's how Fen and I beat the L3 DBK originally and how we beat it in a semi-regular fashion now.
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Nick Wirtz
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Italics, assuming he was thinking of the sharp upgrade...

Either way, interesting re: the trash crown, I couldn't really figure out what to make of that item. Yeah, we also discovered the bow trick, but hadn't put those together.
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Alessio Massuoli
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I actually was thinking about frail, but I also knew that the claws got sharp... I just convinced myself of a thing while I was writing (also called "internet comment syndrome"), go figure...
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spiralingcadaver wrote:
Either way, interesting re: the trash crown, I couldn't really figure out what to make of that item. Yeah, we also discovered the bow trick, but hadn't put those together.

If you combine the Trash Crown, the Circlet (and/or Wisdom potion) plus the Crest Crown from the Phoenix you literally never have to trigger another trap in the entire game and you can filter all the hit locations to just attack the ones with beneficial crit locations and/or weak reactions.

Without the Crest a spear specialist with or without the Blue charm will also do the job.

One of the best hunting party gear builds I ever took out was as follows:

1 x Damage Tank with Juggernaut Blade, Calcified Rolling Armor + Trash Crown + Beacon Shield + Wisdom Potion
1 x Damage Bruiser with Digging Claw,Ink Sword, Blood Paint and Rolling Armor + Trash Crown
1 x Trapper/Tank with Cyclopian Armor, Blue Charm, Lantern Glaive, Rainbow Wing Belt + Fetasaurus
1 x Support with Cyclopian armor + Circlet, Vespertine Bow + Shadow Shawl Saliva + Crest Crown

I'm writing these builds from memory so they may have varied a little.

Double Crowns made things exceptionally safe. I do wish I could have fitted the Knight Badges in the builds somewhere.

This was a 3 loop build, as in I phoenix looped twice before completing this stuff.
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TechRaptor Travis
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Italics wrote:
spiralingcadaver wrote:
Either way, interesting re: the trash crown, I couldn't really figure out what to make of that item. Yeah, we also discovered the bow trick, but hadn't put those together.

If you combine the Trash Crown, the Circlet (and/or Wisdom potion) plus the Crest Crown from the Phoenix you literally never have to trigger another trap in the entire game and you can filter all the hit locations to just attack the ones with beneficial crit locations and/or weak reactions.

Without the Crest a spear specialist with or without the Blue charm will also do the job.

One of the best hunting party gear builds I ever took out was as follows:

1 x Damage Tank with Juggernaut Blade, Calcified Rolling Armor + Trash Crown + Beacon Shield + Wisdom Potion
1 x Damage Bruiser with Digging Claw,Ink Sword, Blood Paint and Rolling Armor + Trash Crown
1 x Trapper/Tank with Cyclopian Armor, Blue Charm, Lantern Glaive, Rainbow Wing Belt + Fetasaurus
1 x Support with Cyclopian armor + Circlet, Vespertine Bow + Shadow Shawl Saliva + Crest Crown

I'm writing these builds from memory so they may have varied a little.

Double Crowns made things exceptionally safe. I do wish I could have fitted the Knight Badges in the builds somewhere.

This was a 3 loop build, as in I phoenix looped twice before completing this stuff.


How did you manage to activate the Ink Sword with these builds?
 
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The Ink Sword shouldn't be in there, that's why I noted that I wrote them from from memory. The gear grids have been dismantled for a few weeks now and the settlement story completed.

Looking at the survivor who was using it, it was a probably a Denticle Axe in that slot.
 
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