Tom Maertz
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We played a game where the player to my right got a free node near me. I made a trade agreement with him and then promptly Hegemony'd it. We were no longer even connected.

1 - Can we make trade agreements from now on as we see fit or do we have to become adjacent again?

2 - The Romulans collect trade agreements right away. But then the text refers to exhausting the card until the next 'Upkeep'. There is no Upkeep phase in the game?! It has to mean the Refresh phase, right?

Wakrob

 
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Leon Stansfield
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1. see rulebook page 6: „Establishing Trade Agreements“ (The conditions to establish a trade agreement must be met only at the time this agreement is concluded.)

2. see rulebook page 24: „Exhausted Trade Agreements“ (Newly concluded trade agreements are available to the Romulan player in the next game round. To stay in your diction: such an agreement would be active in the upkeep phase (recharge stage) of the subsequent game round).
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Tom Maertz
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jumpwalker wrote:
1. see rulebook page 6: „Establishing Trade Agreements“ (The conditions to establish a trade agreement must be met only at the time this agreement is concluded.)


So what does "Once you have given a rival a Trade Agreement, you may exchange it for one of your other Trade Agreements regardless of ships' positions." mean?

Wakrob
 
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Leon Stansfield
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That means, if you already have an existing trade agreement with a fellow player, you can change this at any time – even if at that time of the change you do not fulfill the condition for the conclusion of trade agreements (since you already have an active trade agreement with that player). So you can change the value of an already existing trading agreement at any time.
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Joshua Siegfried
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CptBlood wrote:
jumpwalker wrote:
1. see rulebook page 6: „Establishing Trade Agreements“ (The conditions to establish a trade agreement must be met only at the time this agreement is concluded.)


So what does "Once you have given a rival a Trade Agreement, you may exchange it for one of your other Trade Agreements regardless of ships' positions." mean?

Wakrob


I always assumed that meant that once you established a trade agreement with someone, you could swap the trade agreement card you gave them with a different value trade agreement card.

For example, you make contact with the Klingons and you each exchange your 3-value trade agreement cards. Later on, the Klingons start to run away with the game, so you swap the 3-value card with your 1-value card. Because of the rule you quoted above, you don't have to be adjacent to them in order to change the value of the trade agreement card you gave them.

At least, that's how I read it.
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Tom Maertz
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I see. Good call guys. I was reading it as once you had made a trade agreement you could make trades in the future no matter ship positions. Kinda like a First Contact version of trading, once the seal is broke...

But the 'exchange it' part makes more sense now.

Couldnt a player give the Romulans infinite resources by withdrawing and making a trade agreement over and over? Even if that was allowed Id just house that any further trade agreements from the same race all start exhausted.

Wakrob
 
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Joshua Siegfried
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CptBlood wrote:
I see. Good call guys. I was reading it as once you had made a trade agreement you could make trades in the future no matter ship positions. Kinda like a First Contact version of trading, once the seal is broke...

But the 'exchange it' part makes more sense now.

Couldnt a player give the Romulans infinite resources by withdrawing and making a trade agreement over and over? Even if that was allowed Id just house that any further trade agreements from the same race all start exhausted.

Wakrob


You do realize that the Romulans don't get the production from the trade agreements until the Recharge Stage of the following round right?

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Tom Maertz
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Oh damn! I thought by Exhaust it, it meant to collect right away. I guess that makes total sense because the other races all have a disadvantage on that side of there home card as well.

Wakrob
 
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William Hardy
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Your original post didn't say whether the free node was connected to the rest of that player's structure. Some exploration cards can give you a control node on a completely isolated system. There is another thread dealing with that possibility, and I believe the consensus was that you cannot establish a trade route via that isolated system. I house rule that you can, BTW, because I think it makes the game more interesting.
You can, of course, continually make trade agreements with the Romulans, benefit from them, and then break them before the Romulans get anything. But they'll just stop trading with you.
 
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Tom Maertz
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Correct. In our game the node was isolated. But this satisfied the rules about starting a Trade Agreement so Im not sure why people would rule against that.

Wakrob
 
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Leon Stansfield
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whardy wrote:
and I believe the consensus was that you cannot establish a trade route via that isolated system.

Of course, you can initiate a trade agreement in this case!

rulebook page 6 („Establishing Trade Agreements“): „… to give or or receive a Trade Agreement, you must have a Ship or a Control Node adjacent to or in the same Sector as one of that rival’s Ship or Control Nodes…“.
No further preconditions must be fulfilled.

 
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Jon Snow
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goo It has been noted on rules threads that being in contact with an isolated world allows you to trade, but not to bid for initiative.

I agree that once the genie is out of the bottle, you can trade to your heart's content thereafter.
 
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Craig S.
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chas59 wrote:
goo It has been noted on rules threads that being in contact with an isolated world allows you to trade, but not to bid for initiative.

I agree that once the genie is out of the bottle, you can trade to your heart's content thereafter.


As long as you remain trade partners. Once the rivals are hostile again...conditions for trade must be met before exchanging trade agreements and making peace.
 
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Jeff Casper
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Hey all!; I saw this thread on Monday, and have been thinking about it since. You guys are touching on what I was wondering about posting, so I guess I want to throw in my 2 cents as well!
Totally agree that once you have an agreement you can change it while no longer being adjacent, BUT..... here are my thoughts on this:
I see an ambiguity here - not clear at all - but I don't feel that this rule is meant to allow a player to "bait and switch" since the key word here is AGREEMENT. I tend to see is as being able to try to do a re-negotiation, which your "friendly" opponent may not agree with. If you can't swing it to your favor, then you have to move on to the next rule about "betray them" by attacking them - thus ending the agreement!
Well, those are my thoughts, please let me know what you guys think.
Steiner
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