Recommend
 
 Thumb up
 Hide
16 Posts

Star Trek: Attack Wing» Forums » General

Subject: Federation 2, Klingons 0 rss

Your Tags: Add tags
Popular Tags: [View All]
Lowell Drake
United States
Meridian
Idaho
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Six of us have gotten together twice to play Star Trek Attack Wing – the first two games of STAW for all of us. In both games the Federation has managed to eliminate all the Klingons without losing one ship. We allowed each team 120 points to build their squadrons. The second game, the Klingons immediately cloaked, but when we closed with the Federation ships, two ships, the Defiant and the Prometheus, both fired on the Kronos, and even though cloaked it lost all shields and all but one hull, all in one turn. Our take-away was that cloaking didn’t offer much in the way of help. The Federation ships have Battle Stations as one of their Actions, which we learned is a powerful Action, while the Klingons don’t have this ability. At this point we all think the Federation is smiled upon by the designers and it seems they’re expected to win in any battle with the Klingons. SO, for all you experienced STAW gamers, do you find the Federation overpowered, or are we simply missing something about cloaking? We’ll get together again in a couple weeks and hope we can see a more balanced game. We’re buying some Dominion ships for the next session, but not sure if we should pit them against the Federation or the Klingons. We’d love to hear all the advice and perspective we can get.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sodoff Baldrick
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
Unless it is really upgraded a basic Defiant shouldn't do much damage to a cloaked Klingon ship. The Defiant throws 3 dice unless upgraded and a cloaked Klingon ship usually has 5 defense dice. Now the Prometheus that is another story. Make sure you arw plays cloak correctly. Shields are disabled and it adds +4 defense dice each time you defend. Also a ship that has been cloaked for a full round cannot be target locked.

A lot is going to depend on the expansions you are playing with. Kronos One is no match for a Prometheus. Vor'Chas, Neg'Vars, and K'Vorts are the back bones of Klingons. Drex and N'Garen add some good quality to Klingon dice as a substitute for Battle Stations. Kor 8 with one of them is an excellent choice. The Admiral Gowron also adds regular battle stations to the Klingon fleet. T'Greth from Kolar's Battle Cruiser is another way to get battle stations.

It is true that the Federation has more toys than all of the other factions but Klingons have a lot of their own.now days. Unless the fed player is slapping 360 attacks on every ship the Klingons should be a decent match sensor echoing and stacking dice.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Larry DeStefano
United States
Bloomingburg
New York
flag msg tools
Sounds like your playing cloaking wrong. If your ship is cloaked you cant be losing shields and hull at the same time. Also BS is good but your Klingons should be TL to hit back just as hard.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Typheron Joyzxqk
United Kingdom
Bathgate
Scotland
flag msg tools
Ordo Xenos | T.I.U.F.
badge
Set Phasers tae Malkey!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As others have said, its highly likely that you are playing Cloak wrong, Klingons also have Projected Stasis Field which can just wreck a fed ship with the right combo.

Generally, as others have said, the feds have the most toys but depending on the build the Klingons are no slouches in combat and have access to Sensor Echo to make a mockery of fire arcs on fed ships.

What were the builds that were used? Also you may want to implement the Tournament style rules that limits all ships to 50 points, it takes the sting out of dreadnaught (one ship, many upgrades) builds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Justin Hare
msg tools
Yeah, sounds like the explanation was incomplete or cloak was not implemented right.

Lets be clear though. Cloak is amazing if you get access to defensive modifiers or you are facing opponents that do not average more than 3 hits an attack.

For Feds being overpowered... yes and no. They have the most available to work from. They typically need well upgraded ships. Klingons have a lot less to work with, but have ships more inclined to run lean. As in ship, captain, and maybe an upgrade. In a nutshell, Feds are mote safe bet and Klingons are risk/reward.

That being said, In fleet pure, Klingons built to go after Feds can wipe the floor with Feds. Klingons not built to go after Feds have a rough time. Projected Stasis Field is brutal against Feds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Trueflight Silverwing
United States
Waverly
New York
flag msg tools
badge
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
As everyone else said, you're definitely playing cloak incorrectly. Get that sorted out and you should be doing better.

4 Klingon Vor'Cha class ships The one in the starter set) with captains will wreck house if used properly. Combined with some bonuses and target lock for rerolls, they can shell out a lot of damage.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
When a ship cloaks, it put's its cloak token on its stand green side up. It's shields go down immediately, but it has the +4 defense dice active immediately. In a later turn, its cloak token comes off the stand to signify that the ships may no longer be locked onto by a target lock. In the first turn, while the token is on the stand, it may be locked onto. In a later turn it may fire. If it does, the cloak token is turned to red. During this time the cloak still provides its 4 additional green defense dice, but at the end of the turn the cloak is gone unless you recloak the next turn. At the beginning of that next turn, the (formerly) cloaked ship may bring its shields up, but it's not required to do so.

Advanced cloaking (Romulan) allows you to not flip your cloak to red when firing but take an Aux Power token instead. Advanced Weapon System (Klingon) allows you to disable the Advanced Weapon System card instead of flipping the Red cloak. The Scimitar has Advanced Cloaking "built-in" to the ship.

Cloaking is VERY sensitive to number of dice thrown at them and quality of those dice. The break point is 4'ish attack dice with good quality (Say the Enterprise D with Picard 9) -- especially in the first turn of cloaking where it is possible to target lock and battlestation on the same turn.

Now with 5+ dice, and good quality, you probably ARE getting through to the cloaked ship and this can be fatal, especially for cloaked B'Rels. If you play the starter Enterprise D against the Vor'Cha, you will probably get a point or 2 through the cloak but the Vor'Cha will probably kill you. If you upgrade to the Sovereign or Prometheus you will probably kill the Vor'Cha.

Of course there are innumerable ways that both sides can adjust their builds.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Lowell Drake
United States
Meridian
Idaho
flag msg tools
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Well, I'm embarrassed to say we forgot to disable shields when cloaking, but in fact that just makes the odds even worse. When the Kronos was battered by both the Defiant and Prometheus, first I took hits on the shields and then on the hull. If I'd played cloaking correctly I would have been vaporized before I'd have ever gotten a shot off.
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Typheron Joyzxqk
United Kingdom
Bathgate
Scotland
flag msg tools
Ordo Xenos | T.I.U.F.
badge
Set Phasers tae Malkey!
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
L4D2 wrote:
If I'd played cloaking correctly I would have been vaporized before I'd have ever gotten a shot off.


What was the Defiant and Prometheus shooting with? and what tokens did they have on them?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sodoff Baldrick
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
What are the two lists? What does your board look like? Open space or are you using terrain?
 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Mike Owens
msg tools
We had similar results at first because we didn't know how to build Klingon ships. We loaded them up with stuff like we did our Federation ships. Klingons are more of a swarm faction. Run as many as you can fit. Make them lean and mean. Some will die—but their brothers will avenge them.

As others have said, the Kronos One is not a particularly good ship. Look at the Klingon ships that throw 5 dice naturally and stack from there. The T'Ong can do this against larger hulls if you want to play TOS-styled Klingons.

The Prometheus is one of the better Fed ships. It's not an entirely fair fight against the Kronos One.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Latimer
Canada
flag msg tools
carbon_dragon wrote:
In a later turn it may fire. If it does, the cloak token is turned to red. During this time the cloak still provides its 4 additional green defense dice, but at the end of the turn the cloak is gone unless you recloak the next turn. At the beginning of that next turn, the (formerly) cloaked ship may bring its shields up, but it's not required to do so.


To clarify; The cloak token is gone at the end phase regardless if you plan to re-cloak or not the next turn. Also the end phase is when your shields can come back up, not at the beginning of the next turn.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Latimer
Canada
flag msg tools
Cloaking;

Pros
- +4 Defense Dice immediately and while a cloak token is on or beside your ship
- Can do the Sensor Echo action using the 1 or 2 straight maneuver templates
- Typically for Klingons add a ship ability bonus (+1 when attacking or -1 def dice or free re-roll etc depending on ship)
- Cannot be target locked after the round in which you cloak or if you maintain the cloak (via Advanced weapon system, Chang's BoP ability, Advanced cloaking device etc)

Cons
- Shields are deactivated
- Typically have weak hull values

Note that Federation typically wants full dice mods (Target Lock & Battle Stations) to make its hits count. When you take away 1 of those its easier to handle the damage.

You dont always need to be cloaking, learn when to cloak and when not too. Cloaking initially on the first round and for the first exchange of fire is typically the smart thing to do.

Yes Klingons dont have BS but they do have N'Garen and D'rex crew upgrades. Add one to a ship with Worf(captain), or on either the Ch'Tang or Pagh ships and typically your going to hit with everything.

They do have Projected Statis Field which can shut down one of the Fed's big hitters. (Use Torg[crew] or Klingon Boarding Party [crew] after PSF to really screw over a heavily upgraded ship if you dont think you can kill it in one round) Or you can use Klingon Stealth Team and not worry about the ship having shields still.
PSF + Barrage of Fire typically can kill a ship. (Hint use PSF from a 5 attack ship and BoF from a 4 attack ship to roll 9 attack dice as PSF's reduction in attack dice doesnt carry over to BoF!)

A SomKor build (IKS Somraw & Kor 6 Captain) can typically draw fire for a turn or two allowing your other ships to fire worry free.

As a last point Klingons dont typically want to joust if possible, use oblique angles and sensor echos. If you can get your opponent to chase 1 ship do so, cause once you get behind those Fed ships you can usually stay there fairly easily.
1 
 Thumb up
1.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Derek Latimer
Canada
flag msg tools
Some good (a bit dated now) blog posts from 'I'm Not Picard!' on Klingons and Cloaking;

Buying Guide; http://notpicard.blogspot.ca/2016/01/caveat-emptor-buyers-gu...

Faction Identity; http://notpicard.blogspot.ca/2015/08/faction-identity-klingo...

Cloaking; http://notpicard.blogspot.ca/2015/07/cloaking-how-to-do-it-w...
1 
 Thumb up
5.00
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
David Griffin
United States
Marietta
Georgia
flag msg tools
designer
Avatar
mbmbmbmbmb
Heavyguard wrote:
Cloaking;

Pros
- +4 Defense Dice immediately and while a cloak token is on or beside your ship
- Can do the Sensor Echo action using the 1 or 2 straight maneuver templates
- Typically for Klingons add a ship ability bonus (+1 when attacking or -1 def dice or free re-roll etc depending on ship)
- Cannot be target locked after the round in which you cloak or if you maintain the cloak (via Advanced weapon system, Chang's BoP ability, Advanced cloaking device etc)

Cons
- Shields are deactivated
- Typically have weak hull values

Note that Federation typically wants full dice mods (Target Lock & Battle Stations) to make its hits count. When you take away 1 of those its easier to handle the damage.

You dont always need to be cloaking, learn when to cloak and when not too. Cloaking initially on the first round and for the first exchange of fire is typically the smart thing to do.

Yes Klingons dont have BS but they do have N'Garen and D'rex crew upgrades. Add one to a ship with Worf(captain), or on either the Ch'Tang or Pagh ships and typically your going to hit with everything.

They do have Projected Statis Field which can shut down one of the Fed's big hitters. (Use Torg[crew] or Klingon Boarding Party [crew] after PSF to really screw over a heavily upgraded ship if you dont think you can kill it in one round) Or you can use Klingon Stealth Team and not worry about the ship having shields still.
PSF + Barrage of Fire typically can kill a ship. (Hint use PSF from a 5 attack ship and BoF from a 4 attack ship to roll 9 attack dice as PSF's reduction in attack dice doesnt carry over to BoF!)

A SomKor build (IKS Somraw & Kor 6 Captain) can typically draw fire for a turn or two allowing your other ships to fire worry free.

As a last point Klingons dont typically want to joust if possible, use oblique angles and sensor echos. If you can get your opponent to chase 1 ship do so, cause once you get behind those Fed ships you can usually stay there fairly easily.


Klingons are famously action poor. They often can't afford to sensor echo unless the ship or some other upgrade (or Martok) gives it to them free. But it's an option to keep in mind. Against the Federation, they are usually moving last so you may not KNOW if you need to sensor echo or not.

Yes you can rob the Feds of some quality, but they have lots of ways to compensate. Kirk 9 (later one) allows them to have a Battlestation token with crazy flexibility. Spock crew and Valtane and a scan can give Captain Spock or Captain Picard (naturally you can't do Spock-Spock) the ability to do BS/Scan which can really heat up those Klingon defense dice.

Stasis field is great, but it will make that ship a prime target for first strike. Plus it's tricky to use. You can't be cloaked for one thing. Secondly THAT ship is pretty vulnerable, so unless you're up against a dreadnought, the other enemy ships will kill YOU too. That said, properly used, you can kill the Fed alpha ship (maybe with old baldy) and that is worth doing, especially if the stasis field is on a disposable unit.
1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Sodoff Baldrick
United States
flag msg tools
mbmbmbmbmb
carbon_dragon wrote:
Klingons are famously action poor. They often can't afford to sensor echo unless the ship or some other upgrade (or Martok) gives it to them free. But it's an option to keep in mind. Against the Federation, they are usually moving last so you may not KNOW if you need to sensor echo or not.

Yes you can rob the Feds of some quality, but they have lots of ways to compensate. Kirk 9 (later one) allows them to have a Battlestation token with crazy flexibility. Spock crew and Valtane and a scan can give Captain Spock or Captain Picard (naturally you can't do Spock-Spock) the ability to do BS/Scan which can really heat up those Klingon defense dice.


This is not as true now as it once was. Klingons now have Chang 7 with a free sensor echo, Lursa gets a free cloak or sensor echo, and with B'Etor around she is a skill 8. Kor 8 is also getting free rerolls with a small investment in crew, so he can save his actions for other things.

Martok is still around and now with Worf from the Rotarran he will be skill 11. Plus Klingons now have access to BS with Gowron and T'Greth. Feds are also not necessarily moving last now. With resources and Admirals it isn't difficult to have a Klingon fleet with skill 11, 9, 9 or 11, 10, 8.

Klingons have a lot more tools than they used to. They now have multiple high skill captains, action economy, BS, and all of the goodies they had before.

1 
 Thumb up
 tip
 Hide
  • [+] Dice rolls
Front Page | Welcome | Contact | Privacy Policy | Terms of Service | Advertise | Support BGG | Feeds RSS
Geekdo, BoardGameGeek, the Geekdo logo, and the BoardGameGeek logo are trademarks of BoardGameGeek, LLC.