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Subject: US pulls out of TPP rss

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Chengkai Yang
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CNN article

Well there's something positive out of this mess.
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Steven Woodcock
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It's a start! Well done President Trump!


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Kudos quitting something we're not part of! Genius! That deserves extra double credit.
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I think the TPP was bad on balance.
It had some nasty stuff in it.
But not having it will probably increase china's regional influence and it did have some good stuff.

Net, net, it's probably better to not be in it as long as we get some kind of regional trade agreement later. One that's smaller and has fewer secret parts.

It would have removed a lot of tariffs, decreasing prices, promoting a freer market. For example- japanese pork tariffs would have been reduced by 80%.
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maxo-texas wrote:
I think the TPP was bad on balance.
It had some nasty stuff in it.
But not having it will probably increase china's regional influence and it did have some good stuff.

Net, net, it's probably better to not be in it as long as we get some kind of regional trade agreement later. One that's smaller and has fewer secret parts.


Yeah, all the secrecy around it originally and the bits that got out didn't look very good for the end user in the long run. On the flip side Foxconn is considering building a factory in the US
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rcbevco wrote:
Kudos quitting something we're not part of! Genius! That deserves extra double credit.


The OP just posted the CNN article. You can contact CNN to complain at

http://www.cnn.com/feedback/

You probably want to put it on one of your bookmarks.



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Ah yes, how great it is. We just told our most solid ally in the Eastern Pacific and the third-largest economy in the world to go fuck themselves. Not to mention the South Koreans, Australians, New Zealanders, and our best ally in the Western Hemisphere, Canada.

Was it negotiated in secret? Of course. At 58, I can't remember when one single treaty was ever negotiated on in public.

Was it perfect? Nope. These things never are. But I'm certain the Chinese are dancing in the streets -- we just opened up the whole Pacific Basin to communists.

The issues with the American economy has, sadly, little to do with NAFTA or a potential TPP. Manufacturers were shutting down or moving to places where they could pay workers $1 a day to build cars or sew T-shirts starting in the 1970s. The town I live in lost two small factories in 1992 to Mexico way before NAFTA. Corporations want the fewest expenses (labor) and the biggest return. Even if we cancel NAFTA that trend isn't going to stop.

Well done, President Trump, well done.
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draxx01 wrote:
CNN article

Well there's something positive out of this mess.


There's a joke in there about "just the TPP" but I got nothin.
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All you have to do to MAGA is say MAGA, or is it click your heels three times and say MAGA... I forgot.
 
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Probably threaten to pull out and then renegotiate.

Huge power vacuum now to be filled, I reckon this speeds up China's ascension.

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maxo-texas wrote:
draxx01 wrote:
CNN article

Well there's something positive out of this mess.


There's a joke in there about "just the TPP" but I got nothin.


Trump doesn't like it because it doesn't have enough PP in it?
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Funny how Republicans liked TPP right up to the moment Donald Frederickovich said he didn't. Which I'm sure came after his usual amount of careful study of the issue at hand.

But yes, this is a clear win for China. Sad!
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I'm pretty ignorant about the details of the TPP other than googling it. For those pleased that Trump has pulled the US out of this trade agreement, what exactly made it a bad agreement or what makes reneging on it good at least?
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remorseless1 wrote:
Ah yes, how great it is. We just told our most solid ally in the Eastern Pacific and the third-largest economy in the world to go fuck themselves. Not to mention the South Koreans, Australians, New Zealanders, and our best ally in the Western Hemisphere, Canada.

Was it negotiated in secret? Of course. At 58, I can't remember when one single treaty was ever negotiated on in public.

Was it perfect? Nope. These things never are. But I'm certain the Chinese are dancing in the streets -- we just opened up the whole Pacific Basin to communists.

The issues with the American economy has, sadly, little to do with NAFTA or a potential TPP. Manufacturers were shutting down or moving to places where they could pay workers $1 a day to build cars or sew T-shirts starting in the 1970s. The town I live in lost two small factories in 1992 to Mexico way before NAFTA. Corporations want the fewest expenses (labor) and the biggest return. Even if we cancel NAFTA that trend isn't going to stop.

Well done, President Trump, well done.


BUT JERBBBS!!!

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The elephant in the room question is how much money is this going to put into Trump's pocket.
 
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I'm glad it's not going ahead. Dunno whether it would have been good for the US, but it was definitely bad for Australia. If you want someone to credit / blame for the TPP getting scuttled, I think Orrin Hatch is the guy.
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maxo-texas wrote:
draxx01 wrote:
CNN article

Well there's something positive out of this mess.


There's a joke in there about "just the TPP" but I got nothin.


Good one.

Hey, I'm looking for a writing partner. Can you name a few of your comedic influences and prefs, just for a general yardstick?

 
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Someone's not down with TPP.
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galad2003 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Ah yes, how great it is. We just told our most solid ally in the Eastern Pacific and the third-largest economy in the world to go fuck themselves. Not to mention the South Koreans, Australians, New Zealanders, and our best ally in the Western Hemisphere, Canada.

Was it negotiated in secret? Of course. At 58, I can't remember when one single treaty was ever negotiated on in public.

Was it perfect? Nope. These things never are. But I'm certain the Chinese are dancing in the streets -- we just opened up the whole Pacific Basin to communists.

The issues with the American economy has, sadly, little to do with NAFTA or a potential TPP. Manufacturers were shutting down or moving to places where they could pay workers $1 a day to build cars or sew T-shirts starting in the 1970s. The town I live in lost two small factories in 1992 to Mexico way before NAFTA. Corporations want the fewest expenses (labor) and the biggest return. Even if we cancel NAFTA that trend isn't going to stop.

Well done, President Trump, well done.


As the largest economy and military in the world we can do that.

This is what got Trump elected. He told the rust belt and the unions he would do things like this. Now you can disagree but so far he is keeping up with one of his campaign promises.


But in the calculus for the country, he just traded away a potential advantage in increased trade, partnerships, and a lever to keep China off-balance FOR some workers in the midwest that AREN'T going to get their jobs back.

So, if this were a business deal, America -100, Midwest workers under the illusion this will help +100.

Hope those workers can sustain their families on hopes and nothing.
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sbszine wrote:
I'm glad it's not going ahead. Dunno whether it would have been good for the US, but it was definitely bad for Australia. If you want someone to credit / blame for the TPP getting scuttled, I think Orrin Hatch is the guy.


Do you any of the details on the hit Australia was going to take? Local partners would have redirected trade elsewhere?
 
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whac3 wrote:
I'm pretty ignorant about the details of the TPP other than googling it. For those pleased that Trump has pulled the US out of this trade agreement, what exactly made it a bad agreement or what makes reneging on it good at least?


It was never passed so we are withdrawing from nothing. It's a big nothing burger with a side order of nothing.
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Amusingly, a blurb about TPP is still up at ustr.gov - guess they haven't gotten round to pulling that down. Though the old TPP page is gone.

https://ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/tran...

Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)
Unlocking Opportunity for Americans through trade with the Asia Pacific

President Obama’s trade agenda is dedicated to expanding economic opportunity for American workers, farmers, ranchers, and businesses. That’s why we are negotiating the Trans-Pacific Partnership, a 21st century trade agreement that will boost U.S. economic growth, support American jobs, and grow Made-in-America exports to some of the most dynamic and fastest growing countries in the world.

As the cornerstone of the Obama Administration’s economic policy in the Asia Pacific, the Trans-Pacific Partnership reflects the United States’ economic priorities and values. The TPP not only seeks to provide new and meaningful market access for American goods and services exports, but also set high-standard rules for trade, and address vital 21st-century issues within the global economy.

For more information, please check out the new TPP website at: www.ustr.gov/tpp.

Here are a few of the ways the Trans-Pacific Partnership will unlock opportunity for you

The TPP will support Made-in-America exports

The TPP will make it easier to sell Made-in-America goods and services exports to some of the most dynamic and fastest growing markets in the world, and support homegrown jobs and economic growth.


The TPP will enforce fundamental labor rights

The TPP will level the playing field for American workers and businesses by building strong and enforceable labor standards.



The TPP will promote strong environmental protection

Environmental protection is a core American value. Through the TPP, the United States is negotiating for robust environment standards and commitments from member countries, and addressing some of the region’s most pressing environmental challenges.


The TPP will help American small businesses benefit from trade

American small businesses are the backbone of the U.S. economy, and have accounted for nearly two thirds of new private sector jobs in recent decades. The TPP will improve transparency and regulations to help U.S. companies engage in and benefit from increased trade in the Asia Pacific.



Unlocking Opportunity for America

The Trans-Pacific Partnership will grow trade with one of the world’s fastest growing regions, and share American values and commitment to improve labor practices and elevate environmental standards around the world.

The TPP will also have great benefits at home, for you and your community. Explore the below map to learn how the Trans-Pacific Partnership will benefit your state and industry, and help Made-in-America businesses grow and support local jobs through trade with the Asia Pacific Region.
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darthhugo wrote:
sbszine wrote:
I'm glad it's not going ahead. Dunno whether it would have been good for the US, but it was definitely bad for Australia. If you want someone to credit / blame for the TPP getting scuttled, I think Orrin Hatch is the guy.


Do you any of the details on the hit Australia was going to take? Local partners would have redirected trade elsewhere?

The hits we would have taken included:
- higher prices for medicine due to a longer exclusivity period for US drugs
- ban on parallel imports, effectively enshrining The Australia Tax
- ISDS clause would have allowed corporations (including shell companies for state actors) to dispute our foreign ownership laws
- legalisation of non-compete clauses in employment contracts
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whac3 wrote:
I'm pretty ignorant about the details of the TPP other than googling it. For those pleased that Trump has pulled the US out of this trade agreement, what exactly made it a bad agreement or what makes reneging on it good at least?


http://inthesetimes.com/article/18695/TPP_Free-Trade_Globali...

Sorry about the caps- it's capped in the article.

#1 IT GIVES 9,200 FOREIGN FIRMS THE RIGHT TO CIRCUMVENT OUR COURTS AND ATTACK THE LAWS WE RELY ON FOR A CLEAN ENVIRONMENT, SAFE FOOD AND DECENT JOBS.
Big one.

#2 ITS ENVIRONMENTAL PROTECTIONS ARE MOSTLY TOOTHLESS, AND IT WOULD DIRECTLY ENCOURAGE FRACKING.
Meh.

#3 WE’D LOSE MILLIONS OF MANUFACTURING JOBS.
A problem.

#4 IT DOES NOTHING TO FIX OUR ENORMOUS TRADE DEFICIT.
Less value that they were saying it had.

#5 IT WOULD MAKE MEDICINES MORE EXPENSIVE, AND COMPROMISE ACCESS FOR MANY PEOPLE IN THE PACIFIC RIM.
This is a problem (it's related to the IP portions of the law).

#6 IT WOULD COMPROMISE THE SAFETY OF OUR FOOD.
This is a big one. Low funding for inspection means likely importation of crop blights as well as unsafe food for consumption.

#7 IT WOULD DESTABILIZE GLOBAL FINANCE.
I don't totally get this point. But the article seems rational so I'll read up on this later.

#8 IT WOULD STRENGTHEN ALREADY-FLAWED INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY REGULATIONS IN AWFUL WAYS, PARTICULARLY ON THE INTERNET.
This part was atrocious and the biggest part they were trying to keep secret until it was so bad that someone inside leaked it.
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remorseless1 wrote:
Was it negotiated in secret? Of course. At 58, I can't remember when one single treaty was ever negotiated on in public.

How about our elected officials?
Quote:
For any senator who wants to study the draft TPP language, it has been made available in the basement of the Capitol, inside a secure, soundproof room. There, lawmakers surrender their cellphones and other mobile devices. Any notes taken inside the room must be left in the room.

Only aides with high-level security clearances can accompany lawmakers. Members of Congress can't ask outside industry experts or lawyers to analyze the language. They can't talk to the public about what they read. And Brown says there's no computer inside the secret room to look something up when there's confusion. You just consult the USTR official.

Who had better access than our elected officials?
Quote:
The more than 600 corporate lobbyists who had access to the draft texts used their insider status to shape the deal, while labor unions, environmentalists and others offered testimony from outside, with little impact.


Good f'ing riddance. I tip my hat to The Donald for this one.
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