Finn Mac Cool
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Can you use abilities to generate symbols before starting a combat?

In other words, could you burn dice that would otherwise be stolen by a monster? Could you Use Magic before a combat to convert a dice that would be stolen?
 
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Daniel Maxfield
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I played it where the magic die was stolen prior to converting to a new die since that is using magic for something other than combat and combat needs to be resolved first.
 
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Max Maloney
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"If trees could scream, would we be so cavalier about cutting them down? We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason." -Jack Handey
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My interpretation of the rules is that monster steal abilities are combat abilities and therefore happen as soon as you start combat.

Anything you can legally do before combat could use dice before they are stolen.

More specifically, if you start your turn in a room with a monster, move into a room with a monster or explore resulting in a room with a monster (forcing you to move into it), you enter this sequence:

PRE-COMBAT: You can use character Abilities, use Magic dice to change other dice, play Treasure Cards.

COMBAT: Before your turn ends, you must start a combat. As soon as you start the combat, any dice stealing by monsters happens immediately. You can use Abilities or play Treasure Cards only that apply to combat results during the combat. (Note, it seems unclear whether you can use Magic dice to change other dice during combat. It is only explicit that you can use Magic dice as Ranged Attacks vs monsters vulnerable to Magic.)

AFTER-COMBAT: Do any actions, including starting another Combat.
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Rob Rocket
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I agree with Dormammu. Keep in mind that if you enter a room with your free footstep token before rolling your dice, you are allowed to reroll dice that would be stolen. But if you rolled your dice and then entered a room, you can't reroll anymore. At least that's how I understood it.
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Kevin Clark
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If you are in a room with a monster that "steals", then I think it happens first. Magic Die can only be used for "combat actions" at that point. I believe that it's stolen beforehand. After all, what would be the point of a monster that steals something that you can just spend before losing it?
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King of the Wood
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can you use your step token before rolling your dice? I thought the very first thing was to roll dice. You then have option to use step token to enter room before retooling...
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Dormammu wrote:
My interpretation of the rules is that monster steal abilities are combat abilities and therefore happen as soon as you start combat.

Anything you can legally do before combat could use dice before they are stolen.

More specifically, if you start your turn in a room with a monster, move into a room with a monster or explore resulting in a room with a monster (forcing you to move into it), you enter this sequence:

PRE-COMBAT: You can use character Abilities, use Magic dice to change other dice, play Treasure Cards.

COMBAT: Before your turn ends, you must start a combat. As soon as you start the combat, any dice stealing by monsters happens immediately. You can use Abilities or play Treasure Cards only that apply to combat results during the combat. (Note, it seems unclear whether you can use Magic dice to change other dice during combat. It is only explicit that you can use Magic dice as Ranged Attacks vs monsters vulnerable to Magic.)

AFTER-COMBAT: Do any actions, including starting another Combat.

100% agree with you, Max.
I would logic that you can use Magic dice to change other dice during combat to generate symbols needed for combat, just as you could play cards that generate magic symbols that can then be used to generate symbols needed for combat.
 
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Shotgun Games
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Dormammu wrote:
My interpretation of the rules is that monster steal abilities are combat abilities and therefore happen as soon as you start combat.

Anything you can legally do before combat could use dice before they are stolen.

More specifically, if you start your turn in a room with a monster, move into a room with a monster or explore resulting in a room with a monster (forcing you to move into it), you enter this sequence:

PRE-COMBAT: You can use character Abilities, use Magic dice to change other dice, play Treasure Cards.

COMBAT: Before your turn ends, you must start a combat. As soon as you start the combat, any dice stealing by monsters happens immediately. You can use Abilities or play Treasure Cards only that apply to combat results during the combat. (Note, it seems unclear whether you can use Magic dice to change other dice during combat. It is only explicit that you can use Magic dice as Ranged Attacks vs monsters vulnerable to Magic.)

AFTER-COMBAT: Do any actions, including starting another Combat.


Exactly. Thanks for this excellent clarification.

One thing I'd like to add:

If you start your turn in a room that already has a Monster in it, and that Monster's ability is to steal a specific dice symbol (i.e. a foot symbol)... it still has the oppurtunity to check your dice once you've rolled it for combat.

You roll, and then re-roll your dice like normal. Since you're still in a combat instance with the Monster, the Monster checks your dice and gets to steal any dice you've settled on (or were forced to settle on) that it normally would steal (foot symbol, etc...).
 
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Nicolas Robins
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There is certainly a fair amount of sloppiness about the rules with regard to timing and the consistent use of terminology. But on page 10 of the rule book it says:

Fight a Monster
If your Hero is in a room with one or more monsters at any point during your turn, you must fight all of those monsters ... The only thing you can do before fighting the monsters is to play Treasure Cards or use abilities that will generate symbols you can use in combat. You can only move, heal, or perform other actions after combat has been resolved. This applies whether you begin your turn in a room with a monster, or if you later move into or explore a room with monsters in it.

I think this says that you cannot use a magic die to modify another die before combat because you're not using a treasure card or activating an ability that generates symbols you can use in combat. You're using a die to modify another die. I would think that you cannot do so until the monsters ability (i.e. to steal a magic die) is resolved first. I cannot see the point of having a monster that steals a magic die if you can just burn it off to avoid it. Seems to go against the spirit of the rules. To me, this says you do pre-combat stuff if able, then start combat. The monster steals a magic die at that point.

I would agree, they are not as clear about the timing of magic usage. Pg 11 says you can use magic to "change your fate." Each magic you use in this way allows you to choose one die that you have not yet used this turn and change it to show the face of your choice. But I've been playing to you can use them during or after combat. Also, the benefits of using a free move action before I roll dice is that I can see what I'm up against and use my reroll to its best effect, including re-rolling dice that migth otherwise get stolen by a monster in the room.

That said, now that I've had this tirade, it has me wondering if a monster that steals swords could be bypassed by docking a sword before combat and generating multiple swords (which you can use during combat after all) and only losing one of the symbols for example (I'm not looking at the reference cards now, but I know most of the monsters that steal first try to steal dice, then symbols). So now, maybe a whole new can of worms has been opened...

Fun game that doesn't try to take itself too seriously. I just wish they'd put a little more time/effort into a cleaner rule book for sure.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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NSlikster wrote:
There is certainly a fair amount of sloppiness about the rules with regard to timing and the consistent use of terminology. But on page 10 of the rule book it says:

Fight a Monster
If your Hero is in a room with one or more monsters at any point during your turn, you must fight all of those monsters ... The only thing you can do before fighting the monsters is to play Treasure Cards or use abilities that will generate symbols you can use in combat. You can only move, heal, or perform other actions after combat has been resolved. This applies whether you begin your turn in a room with a monster, or if you later move into or explore a room with monsters in it.

I believe you are quoting from an old version rulebook.

The page 10 of the physical copy I received with the game is:

• Fight a Monster
If your Hero is in a room with one or more monsters at any point
during your turn, you must fight all of those monsters—even if
you cannot defeat them (by not having any more dice to use, for
example). You can use abilities or play Treasure Cards to generate
the symbols you will need in combat, of course, but you can
only move, Drink Elixir, or perform Room Actions after combat
has been resolved. This applies whether you begin your turn in a
room with a monster, or if you later move into or explore a room
with monsters in it (see “Monsters” on page 18).

 
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Nicolas Robins
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Oops. You're right of course. Didn't realize I was looking at the old rules online. Since I'm not helping with the OP's original question, bowing out ungracefully.
 
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Andrzej Kaczor
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I've read all and I am confused.

Is there a, let's say, gap between move and fight where I can dock my dices and gain symbols?

Or after I move to the room fight happen at once and if monster is stealing die it is stolen, without possibility to use it. ?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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AkitaInu wrote:
I've read all and I am confused.

Is there a, let's say, gap between move and fight where I can dock my dices and gain symbols?

Or after I move to the room fight happen at once and if monster is stealing die it is stolen, without possibility to use it. ?

Initiating Combat is an Action that you declare. So yes, there is time before you fight to roll dice, use treasure, etc. - the limited actions allowed by rule. The fight is not immediate but is something that must be encountered before you end your turn in that space.
 
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