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Subject: Price (Too expensive) ? rss

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João Guisado
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Disclaimer: This is my opinion based on what I saw on the preview of the kickstarter campaigne. If you have a different one that's ok. You may share it, just be polite. This is about preceived value which varies from person to person, nobody is entitled to be right on this matter.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

Box Contents:

1 Giant Game Board (39x26in., six-fold)
80 Miniatures (20 designs, 12 pre-painted figures)
32 Cardboard Constructs (8 per faction)
4 Capital City Boards (1 per faction)
21 Wood Resource Tokens (for up to 6 players*)
8 Action Tokens (2 per faction)
4 Score Tokens (1 per faction)
1 First Player Token
78 Exploration Tokens
12 Hero Cards (3 per faction)
6 Decks of 7 Tactic Cards (for up to 6 players*)
48 Spell Cards
6 Plastic Stands (for aerial constructs)
1 Rulebook

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was super excited for Heroes of Land Air and See (HoLAaS). I own TEK and TEK:HC and when I saw this game I thought once the Kickstarter campaign would start I'd pledge in an instant.

But...

The pre-painted minis look very bad I think. Especially the eyes. So, for me, the fact that they come pre-painted don't add value (if only subtracts). And for people that have already invested on painting material and rather paint the minis themselves, it's even worse.

The Cardboard Constructs on the other hand are really nice. But I don't think they are that expensive to make.

The game itself sounds awesome. Lots of strategy, different factions with different abilities, tactics, exploration... This is an awesome game...

The problem is that my perceived value of all the content is not even close to the price tag.

If I compare my consumer surplus [perceived value / price tag] of the Mechs vs Minions (MvsM) with my consumer surplus of "HoLAaS", well... It's not even close. And listen, I don't even like "MvsM" (but that's another topic). I know, that game is an anomaly between board games. But I can compare "HoLAaS" to one I actually like and have backed on KK.

I backed The Walking Dead: No Sanctuary (TWD:NS) on a 125$ Tier (Same price as the base game tier of this one) which includes base game AND both available expansions (killer within & What Lies Ahead)

Comes with 130 minis (50 minis more than "HoLAaS"), with 37 different designs (17 more than "HoLAaS").

Of these, 29 are exclusives, with 12 designs, which for purposes of perceived value is a great deal (exclusives are rare and, for that, more valuable).

All the miniatures in the TWD:NS are 35mm, on "HoLAaS" they are 28mm. Also, there's one mini on the TWD:NS (an RV) with 88mm high, 193mm long.

And this is a game with an expensive Intellectual Property, not like on "HoLAaS".

I can't really compare the value of the game mecanismes themselves because they are extremely different. But they are both good from what I can see, and both complex (in a good way).

This comparisons are just examples that I could come up with, using "tools" (games) that I know of and, for me, have a good price tag.

That said, although I can see value on "HoLAaS" and think it may be a great game, its price tag it's just way to far from my perceived value of the content that comes with it.

This may change, if there are hidden strecth goals that add value to the game (provided they are reached).

Once again, this is just my opinion. You may disagree. Tell me why

Ps: English is not my native language, sorry for any mistakes
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Bors
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For the walking dead was your pledge the starting pledge or does it have SG's in it?
 
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Jason Brown
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How did you see a preview for the KS page?
 
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Richard Sampson
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MAJBrown22 wrote:
How did you see a preview for the KS page?
It seems it was a limited window thing, but the KS begins tomorrow.

The price since the OP doesn't really list it explicitly is:

$125 for base game
$190 for base game + expansion
$245 for base game + 2 expansions


I didn't see the KS preview either so I can't comment on the contents of the expansions, but yeah those prices seem WAY too high. That kind of puts this game in competition with things like Mythic Battles and Kingdom Death in terms of price. I will hold off on further judgement until I see the actual campaign, but it isn't starting off well.

Edit: I marked through the prices because it seems they may change these (see their comments below). I think based on the feedback, it has been clear that price point is too high for most people's expectations.

Also mentioned below is that they are going to offer unpainted version at a reduced price. Depending on how much they can get the price lowered, that may help a good deal too.
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Dang! I was seriously thinking it would be like $80 USD. Daaaaaaaaang!
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Dylan Bradshaw
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Wow, that's a lot of money. My "perceived value" says, "I will pass."
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Michael Coe
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We're revisiting the reward tiers and we will offer a non-painted minis version of the game. We are also digging for deeper discounts overall. See you tomorrow.
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Mike
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Would anyone feel different if they changed the name to Tiny Epic Money Grab?
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Michael Coe
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Also, this project is offering U.K. Friendly shipping.
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Michael Coe
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I would feel different, because that's not what this is.
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Duarte
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ras2124 wrote:
MAJBrown22 wrote:
How did you see a preview for the KS page?
It seems it was a limited window thing, but the KS begins tomorrow.

The price since the OP doesn't really list it explicitly is:

$125 for base game
$190 for base game + expansion
$245 for base game + 2 expansions

I didn't see the KS preview either so I can't comment on the contents of the expansions, but yeah those prices seem WAY too high. That kind of puts this game in competition with things like Mythic Battles and Kingdom Death in terms of price. I will hold off on further judgement until I see the actual campaign, but it isn't starting off well.


Seriously???? ##$#%#%!!!

I'm glad they did that, though, they made it easy for me to decide.
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Mike
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mgcoe wrote:
I would feel different, because that's not what this is.


I'm sure it is. The prices just struck me as funny compared to your other published games. I'm having a difficult time conceiving of what could possibly be in the game to cost so much money. I suppose I will know more tomorrow with everyone else and then understand the high entry fee.
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João Guisado
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Bors77 wrote:
For the walking dead was your pledge the starting pledge or does it have SG's in it?


I actually didn't kown about TWD:NS until after the campaigne ended. So I backed it through their pledge manager. Thus the 125$ already had stretch goals included.

Although even whitout the stretch goals, the 125$ had 107 minis of a well known Intelectual Property. This were not just random minis. Excluding the zombies, there's a ton of minis based on real characters of a TV series (real people). I bet this is WAY more expensive to create than orcs, elvs, orcs and humans, both because they are probably harder to sculpt and because of the IP rights.

But, about the stretch goals, this is why I said that my opinion on this campaign could change with them (if they exist, which is very possible). But since people have to pledge X amount to get to those strech goals, and the majority of people is saying the game is to expensive, it's almost a paradox.

MAJBrown22 wrote:
How did you see a preview for the KS page?


There was a link to the preview of the campaigne on Gamelyngames facebook page. The link is not working anymore. Although I was able to save an offline version of the page before it went down.

ras2124 wrote:
MAJBrown22 wrote:
How did you see a preview for the KS page?
The price since the OP doesn't really list it explicitly is:
$125 for base game
$190 for base game + expansion
$245 for base game + 2 expansions


At the time I wasn't aware the link was down. I thought everyone could go check it out. Thanks for posting
 
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João Guisado
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mgcoe wrote:
We're revisiting the reward tiers and we will offer a non-painted minis version of the game. We are also digging for deeper discounts overall. See you tomorrow.


Thank you Michael! I wish you good luck for tomorrow!
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David Hoffman
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TheDarkKnight wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
I would feel different, because that's not what this is.


I'm sure it is. The prices just struck me as funny compared to your other published games. I'm having a difficult time conceiving of what could possibly be in the game to cost so much money. I suppose I will know more tomorrow with everyone else and then understand the high entry fee.


FWIW, Gamelyn's other games have been much, much smaller in terms of both box-size and components.

Their other games have been mainly cards, boards, and meeples. No miniatures (certainly no painted miniatures).

I don't know how I feel about the pricing on this versus other games, either at retail or on Kickstarter, but I don't know that it's necessarily fair to try and do an apples to apples comparison between this and, say, one of the Tiny Epic games.
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Jason Brown
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mgcoe wrote:
We're revisiting the reward tiers and we will offer a non-painted minis version of the game. We are also digging for deeper discounts overall. See you tomorrow.

Excellent, thank you Michael. See you bright and early!
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João Guisado
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ohbalto wrote:


FWIW, Gamelyn's other games have been much, much smaller in terms of both box-size and components.

Their other games have been mainly cards, boards, and meeples. No miniatures (certainly no painted miniatures).

I don't know how I feel about the pricing on this versus other games, either at retail or on Kickstarter, but I don't know that it's necessarily fair to try and do an apples to apples comparison between this and, say, one of the Tiny Epic games.


As consumers we can compare games with one another. Obviously we have to make it so taking the necessary precoutions so that we don't end up misleading ourselves.

I don't think comparing this with Tiny Epic games would be wise.

Also people are not questioning the game's quality. This is all about the price. And thus I think we can should compare it to games with similar price and/or content so we can either agree or disagree that the price is fair based on what's out there.
 
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Steve
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I have Loved gamelyn since before they were gamelyn. The only game I have ever disliked from them was Defenders. That said, as of now this is a hard pass for me. With expansions, it looks to cost more than KDM (I paid $200 during the latest KS) and seems to have less content ( KDM = 41 Miniatures, at least 1 huge one, 652 game cards, 300 gear cards, 142 tokens, giant board, and more). Then consider that KDM has miniatures that are some of the best available on the hobby side and that this is Gamelyns first attempt at miniatures, and it is risky. I know these are vastly different products, but the point is, I thought KDM had an insane price, even with the insanely detailed miniatures and this will be more, at least for me. I wonder, do they have any production miniatures to show or are the ones available (if any) detailed 3d prints or masters? I know its not likely, but would have loved a standee version.
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Scott Everts
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I know this is the Internet, but probably best to wait for the KS to start before crucifying the game.
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Mike
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ohbalto wrote:
TheDarkKnight wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
I would feel different, because that's not what this is.


I'm sure it is. The prices just struck me as funny compared to your other published games. I'm having a difficult time conceiving of what could possibly be in the game to cost so much money. I suppose I will know more tomorrow with everyone else and then understand the high entry fee.


FWIW, Gamelyn's other games have been much, much smaller in terms of both box-size and components.

Their other games have been mainly cards, boards, and meeples. No miniatures (certainly no painted miniatures).

I don't know how I feel about the pricing on this versus other games, either at retail or on Kickstarter, but I don't know that it's necessarily fair to try and do an apples to apples comparison between this and, say, one of the Tiny Epic games.


I definitely know nothing about the game and will certainly be taking a look at the KS. The price point, however, makes it a tough call. Cheaper games (like the Tiny Epic stuff) are easier to just grab and hope they are good. Plus, I am not sure how many more mini heavy games I can store. LOL! I feel like I'm buried in plastic already.
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Lee Fisher
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Are these minis much bigger than the walking dead ones or similar in size?

Either way there were probably an order of magnitude more copies of walking dead produced.
 
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Michael Coe
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fubarbox wrote:
I have Loved gamelyn since before they were gamelyn. The only game I have ever disliked from them was Defenders. That said, as of now this is a hard pass for me. With expansions, it looks to cost more than KDM (I paid $200 during the latest KS) and seems to have less content ( KDM = 41 Miniatures, at least 1 huge one, 652 game cards, 300 gear cards, 142 tokens, giant board, and more). Then consider that KDM has miniatures that are some of the best available on the hobby side and that this is Gamelyns first attempt at miniatures, and it is risky. I know these are vastly different products, but the point is, I thought KDM had an insane price, even with the insanely detailed miniatures and this will be more, at least for me. I wonder, do they have any production miniatures to show or are the ones available (if any) detailed 3d prints or masters? I know its not likely, but would have loved a standee version.


Thank you for all the support Steven.

While this is our first attempt with miniatures, it is not our manufacturer's first attempt or our sculptor's. We've hired Chad Hoverter, of Mice and Mystics and Tail Feathers and more to sculpt our figures. Our manufacturer is Panda Games who has made many minis projects including Mechs vs. Minions. We're able to lean on their expertise to collectively create and deliver minis of the highest quality. We already have most of them molded with pre-painted samples created. We are in great shape regarding our minis.
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Bru Ticus
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The price is too high.
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João Guisado
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lfisher wrote:
Are these minis much bigger than the walking dead ones or similar in size?

Either way there were probably an order of magnitude more copies of walking dead produced.



They are smaller. The minis from TWD:NS are 35mm. These from HoLAaS are 28mm (base) or 24mm (scale) which I assume it's different based on whether you count from the bottom of the base or the the top.

Also, I have the images of the minis from the KK campaigne page with me. I won't post them because I don't think I should. You have to wait for tomorrow to see. What I can do is to say that the painting on the pre-painted ones are bad (in my opinion). They look messy. The eyes are awful.

Gamelyngames may have hired good sculptures, but certeinly forgot to hire good painters...



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trevor

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TheDarkKnight wrote:
mgcoe wrote:
I would feel different, because that's not what this is.


I'm sure it is. The prices just struck me as funny compared to your other published games. I'm having a difficult time conceiving of what could possibly be in the game to cost so much money. I suppose I will know more tomorrow with everyone else and then understand the high entry fee.


Thats not really fair. I dont see the price as being any different from other KS games. To disregard their work as a money grab is really disrespectful
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