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Subject: Kickstarter story quest booklet. rss

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Peter Hulting
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I know the Kickstarter story quest booklet contains a lot of kickstarter related content, but is it possible to use with the updated core box and eventually some expansions? Furthermore, is it any good? It seems that the story quests in the core box are missing the setup without the 1.0 rules so I can't really use them. Anyhow they are supposed to be lacking according to this forum. I may have the possibility to buy the kickstarter booklet and wonder if I should bother?
 
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Thorsten Schröder
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The problem with the stories was that they were lacking information on how to set up the tiles. Sometimes there were extra rules that were not very good explained so you had to come up with something. I played through a few (not from the booklet) and it was ok for me. Some people did not like coming up with rules at all so they were... not amused.
Th KS booklet contains stories for some of the races/bosses/agents and the tile packs funded through KS1.
If thats something for you I would say its ok to buy it depending on the price.
I still hope that one creative soul will find it in their heart to make modules out of them...
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David Griffin
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Cuthailion wrote:
The problem with the stories was that they were lacking information on how to set up the tiles. Sometimes there were extra rules that were not very good explained so you had to come up with something. I played through a few (not from the booklet) and it was ok for me. Some people did not like coming up with rules at all so they were... not amused.
Th KS booklet contains stories for some of the races/bosses/agents and the tile packs funded through KS1.
If thats something for you I would say its ok to buy it depending on the price.
I still hope that one creative soul will find it in their heart to make modules out of them...


In a real sense, Myth was created for the creators. What I mean is that it was their perfect tactical sandbox. Looked at that way, the story quest book was perfect for them because it gave them the ideas and set up what characters were in the "adventure" and left it up to the player to make their own decisions. This really wasn't what a lot of people were expecting but it's consistent with their design philosophy if you think about it.
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carbon_dragon wrote:

In a real sense, Myth was created for the creators. What I mean is that it was their perfect tactical sandbox. Looked at that way, the story quest book was perfect for them because it gave them the ideas and set up what characters were in the "adventure" and left it up to the player to make their own decisions. This really wasn't what a lot of people were expecting but it's consistent with their design philosophy if you think about it.


... You have just put to words something that's been hovering around in my brain since 2014, refusing to come out as language.

Thanks!
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Peter Hulting
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Ok, I think I see what you mean. Did you find it significantly better than the quests in the core box? Is it comparable to the modules that have been created since?
 
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Marcus Taylor
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Belloque wrote:
Ok, I think I see what you mean. Did you find it significantly better than the quests in the core box? Is it comparable to the modules that have been created since?


Depends what you mean. The KS Quests are in a similar format to the ones in the Myth 1.0 book - that is, lacking set-up instructions, with missing rules and win/lose conditions. The modules they have done (Stone of Life in any rate) are far better laid out and each tile is pre-populated.

As David insightfully noted, Myth is made for MCG, and that's why they don't care much whether the fans like it or not, and it also explains their aversion to playtesting. When the game first came out, they were baffled and then angry that fans couldn't play using the 1.0 rulebook, because they had it all their heads but couldn't communicate it to the fans. Only when the trickle of complaints became a deluge did they grudgingly realise something needed to be changed.

I think the only way to play Myth and keep your sanity is to see it as a kind of 'boardgame creation kit'. There are lots of beautiful components and vague suggestions on how to make a game, so you just use the minis and cardboard bits to make your own game. Maybe that's how MCG intended it all along?

In any case, the KS Quests are interesting because they contain so much lore and world-building and background on the Myth world. Why they weren't in the main box is anyone's guess. They really should have been. They go into more detail about the various races like the sycline and the tailless. The stories are actually thought-provoking and very imaginative (discovering the way to destroy the sycline is to set the crawlers on them, for instance). The Quests allow you to use the Bosses even though they are vastly more powerful than the starting PCs, by the inclusion of special rules (you're usually not trying to kill them, just drive them off or survive them for a time).

There are also stories told for ambiguous, frenemy characters like Donnchadh, Etrius and Twilight Knight, which go into their backstory and even allow you to avoid fighting them if you do things right.

All the KS Quests obviously had a lot of effort put into the story and tried to give us something more interesting than just 'kill 20 orcs and return for a reward'. But they're lacking in cohesion and detail so you'll have to make up a lot of rules on the fly.

That's pretty typical of Myth in general really. It will almost always have:

1) very cool concepts and story and ideas
2) a lack of detailed rules and playtesting

The recent Stone of Life module does seem a step in the right direction, or rather, what they should have done right from the very start. It's telling that a game made in 2013 is only now getting it's beginner scenario.

TL'DR: if you don't mind making lots of stuff up as you go along, you might enjoy this. If you don't, go play something else as Myth isn't for you.
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Peter Hulting
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Thanks Marcus! I guess I won't get a more detailed response than that. I do think I will enjoy Myth eventually, just taking baby steps at the moment. I've got a background playing rpg:s so I don't mind the making things up part. As long as it's within reason... The card system is intriguing and I like what I've seen from gameplay videos when it comes to strategy and co-op. I'm also a sucker for a good backstory, that's why I considered buying the "Story quest booklet" when I saw it for sale.

After reading the answers above it seems I would need more than just the grubbers/insects/undead plus their respective bosses to really enjoy the "Kickstarter story quest booklet". Too bad!

You seem to like it even if it's lacking structure. Last question: would you say it's worth getting it even if it's only for backstory reading?
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Marcus Taylor
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Belloque wrote:

You seem to like it even if it's lacking structure. Last question: would you say it's worth getting it even if it's only for backstory reading?


Myth can be frustrating, because it has some fantastic ideas, but some severe drawbacks too.

The world, the writing, the lore, all feel unique. It's not generic fantasy like Descent and doesn't feel like anything else out there. MCG really do have very cool concepts, ideas, and gorgeous artwork and minis.

But there are downsides. MCG themselves aren't great at dealing with customers and that can frustrate some people.

The game itself, while very different and lush with lore, is more of a collection of great ideas and fantastic components - the rules are often vague, lacking important information and require a great deal of investment from the player to learn and then adapt to their own style.

Other elements of the game - like the hand management, asymmetrical turn structure between heroes and enemies, and the sheer freedom you have when populating the game - are intriguing concepts, but take a long time to learn and require a definite paradigm-shift from the player.

IF you can get your head around the game concepts, IF you don't mind dealing with a company that is often it's own worst enemy, and IF you're prepared to put in time tweaking and house-ruling the game to suit your needs, then there's potentially a great game here.

Needless to say though... it's not for everyone.

(Also, being a minis-heavy game, it's not cheap and can be hard to find the various pieces - I still don't have Ia, the elemental boss, for instance. If you see the KS book on sale, buy it immediately. It's becoming rare and is absolutely a must-have for the Myth lore.)

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MM
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Great comments from Marcus. I think you've offered some good advice and perspective.

I do want to comment on one aspect of what you said about the KS exclusive quests.

Marcus the Ready wrote:
In any case, the KS Quests are interesting because they contain so much lore and world-building and background on the Myth world. Why they weren't in the main box is anyone's guess. They really should have been.


I think the reason they weren't in the main/base box is because they contained stories of races/miniatures that weren't in the base box. I think the call to keep those stories out of retail was a good one considering the likely negative reaction.

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Marcus Taylor
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Fair comment, MMI, but this is the stuff that really should be in the hardback book (assuming we ever see it!) - the story fluff, not the crunch.
 
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David Griffin
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I've said this before (as have others) but this game really just LOOKS like a dungeon crawler with fantasy characters and magic swords and scary monsters etc. But actually it's a tactical game with unusual amounts of player choice in terms of opponents.

You kinda sorta can play it as a dungeon crawler with progression but you're trying to make it into something it really isn't, which is why MegaCon has had so much trouble doing it themselves.

We are (a lot of us) ex RPG'ers and we WANT there to be story in there (and I think there is inside MegaCon's brains where we will probably never see it) but they could have just as easily done post apocalyptic creatures, space pirates, or any other "skin" over the top of the game. The thing that is different about Myth is the game play and the player choice. Other than that, you're probably better off playing Zombicide Black Plague (which is a pretty great game, but there is only the usual player choices and the game play while fun is pretty conventional).

The real problem is the MegaCon guys are either unwilling or unable to actually write a manual that teaches new players how to play the game and have fun doing it. You need to understand your choices and how to populate tiles and how to assess threat and so on. The manual doesn't even address those issues. So people try to learn the game, but often fail. Only the really dedicated (or those who learn from someone else who understands the game) ever see what a good game it is.

I sympathize with MegaCon about this because I can't write a good instruction manual either. It's really HARD. But since this game isn't like all those other games people have played, they keep trying to make Myth fit their previous game experiences, with unfortunate results.
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Marcus Taylor
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Very true. When even MCG aren't certain quite what their game really is, what hope have the rest of us got? I mean they put this on the back of their game:

Myth is a fun fantasy romp where players feel truly heroic. In the playing of the game, the players are creating their own mythos. These stories are the ones carried away from the table, becoming myths themselves. And these are the myths, with friends and family, that we carry with us; telling and retelling our endeavors at the mead benches, earning treasured smiles and laughter.

That has literally nothing to do with the game in the box and seems to be a misprint from some other game.

People want it to be WarhammerQuest 2.0, but you'll have to make up your own rules if you want to make it that. It's not really a 'dungeon crawler' either because it lacks the vital element of exploration (you decide what tiles you face and you can't go back anyway). Plus the progression rules are underwhelming because it was never supposed to have them.

So what is it really? It's... a tactical minis game, sort of a puzzle-combat game, something that actually comes out in their 'Teaching Module'. The gameplay is in the hand management - in working out what order to act, when to trigger the Darkness, etc.

But because it has such great components, because it has a fantasy skin and minis, people want it to be something else entirely. And both they and MCG are trying to make it more like an RPG-lite, with inconclusive results.

That said, I still think it's a 'boardgame creation kit' at its heart, and I don't blame anyone for just using the components to make their own game.
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Stevie P
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If I had a chance to get the booklet I would buy it. (I came late to the game as I did not know about Kickstarter before journeyman). It's worth the investment in time to learn. The community here is like no other and the quality custom content is superb. Remember we have Tobi (nimmzwei) who really is a genius game developer. As long as he doesn't get distracted by starting his own game company whistle. He isn't the only great custom contenter just the most prolific.

Sorry I know a bit off topic but I blame Marcus .

I spent about 3 weeks playin KDM and then yamoto2 pulls me back in with his challenges, Tobi with his new vampire hero, armoredgear7 with his status cards, and Jude with her custom adventure. That was all just this week!

I will some day get around to Act 2 and 3 on my custom module, but you can add a whole nother race of monsters based on reaper minis with my personal contribution. I plan on adding a commander.

So sounds like you have the right mind set. Get that booklet if you can and jump on this community band wagon and let the game become so much more. Personally I think this is what MCG intended by the way they let us use their copywrited content.
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David Griffin
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Definitely worth buying if only to find out who those kickstarter characters actually are. It gives you some story snippets which are nice to know.

Really they ought to just make this available online.
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Peter Hulting
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If I might ask. Exactly what characters or monsters appear?
 
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Marcus Taylor
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Belloque wrote:
If I might ask. Exactly what characters or monsters appear?


The Quests:

Worth Of One: Sycline, segues into...

Land of My Sojourn: Etrius the Last, and probably my favourite storyline for the Reapers vs Thresher Maws Sycline vs Crawlers last act.

Heart of Darkness: Bones and the undead

A More Clever King: The Rat King and the tailless

Reign Over Me: Orcneas and his grubbers. All the Acts are named after Who songs!

Song of the Whelp: Urulok the Young. You can't beat him obviously but you can fight him and seal him away.

Foundations of the World: Ia the elemental boss

Tale of Twilight: Twilight Knight. You can earn her blade without fighting her.

Donnchadh: Donnchadh, obviously! His story reads like a Shakesperean tragedy.

The Great Escape: Cyrddin. No mini for her yet but she's an important NPC in the Myth world.

Camp Wakonda: The three Agents, Stvln, Talsia and the one with the bow who's name I forget.


May I also point out these mostly have new Titles, some of them character-specific. The Rat-King one, for instance, hints at why the male Brigand left his people.
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Pietro Pomella
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Don't want to derail the conversation too much, but how do you guys interpret Act III of Camp Wakonda? Do you just spawn an arbitrary amount of baddies or are there specific instructions somewhere?
Most of the quests work well enough despite the scarcity of details, but I feel like I am missing something here.
 
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Joe Price
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Belloque wrote:
I've got a background playing rpg:s so I don't mind the making things up part.


In my opinion, if you have the RPG background, especially if you've run your own game, then you can easily use the rules as basically indicated: a tactical simulator for the story. The original quest booklets are starter stories, guidelines, to set the conflict in the game against.

As most folks here have said, what Myth is light on, are 'boardgame' level setup details and campaign level details. The game available in the rules (even with its warts) is a fun tactical combat simulator of heroes against hordes of bad guys.
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Peter Hulting
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Sorry to bring this up again, but I was wondering if you might know how many minions/captains are needed for rats/cyclops/elementals in the Kickstarter 10 quest booklet?

 
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John
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It's an old story quest. This means that you don't need any amount and you can do the setup however you want.
 
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Peter Hulting
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whiskemuscles wrote:
It's an old story quest. This means that you don't need any amount and you can do the setup however you want.


Any recommendations from your own experience?
 
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John
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Belloque wrote:
whiskemuscles wrote:
It's an old story quest. This means that you don't need any amount and you can do the setup however you want.


Any recommendations from your own experience?


If you don't have any get the 20/4/1.

If you do just use what you have. It's been a long time since I have played those quests but we just used what we had from the first Kickstarter when that second wave shipped. How much we threw down on the tile varied based on our mood, success, and chemistry of the group playing.
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Michael Callahan
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Marcus the Ready wrote:
Belloque wrote:
If I might ask. Exactly what characters or monsters appear?


The Quests:

Worth Of One: Sycline, segues into...

Land of My Sojourn: Etrius the Last, and probably my favourite storyline for the Reapers vs Thresher Maws Sycline vs Crawlers last act.

Heart of Darkness: Bones and the undead

A More Clever King: The Rat King and the tailless

Reign Over Me: Orcneas and his grubbers. All the Acts are named after Who songs!

Song of the Whelp: Urulok the Young. You can't beat him obviously but you can fight him and seal him away.

Foundations of the World: Ia the elemental boss

Tale of Twilight: Twilight Knight. You can earn her blade without fighting her.

Donnchadh: Donnchadh, obviously! His story reads like a Shakesperean tragedy.

The Great Escape: Cyrddin. No mini for her yet but she's an important NPC in the Myth world.

Camp Wakonda: The three Agents, Stvln, Talsia and the one with the bow who's name I forget.


May I also point out these mostly have new Titles, some of them character-specific. The Rat-King one, for instance, hints at why the male Brigand left his people.


I'd imagine that many of the ideas explored in that booklet will become larger adventures with some of the same feel in the individual Modules.

I'm really anxious to see these,........ it is what should have been out there at the start. Tight bundles of content with basically everything that you need other than the base game,.... but I digress,..... again.

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Peter Hulting
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So, are these quests supposed to be played in a specific order? Is there any difference i difficulty? Apart from the first two that obviously belong together, it doesn't seem to be that way as most bosses have special rules and don't have to be defeated. Am I right?
 
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David Griffin
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Belloque wrote:
So, are these quests supposed to be played in a specific order? Is there any difference i difficulty? Apart from the first two that obviously belong together, it doesn't seem to be that way as most bosses have special rules and don't have to be defeated. Am I right?


There is really no progression and no real indication of difficulty. Plus all the details aren't there so you have to fill that in with your own choices (very Myth right?). So they are quests in the same way as the quest cards are in the game. Basically an outline and an idea that you add your own magic to.

That said I haven't played them. I did enjoy reading them though to get an idea of who the characters were.
 
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