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Subject: Revised rules on wall breaking rss

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Eddie Harr
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The new revised rules say on the first mission that you can use wall wrecker to move through "one of the wooden huts." So does this mean only "one" of them, not all the wooden ones?
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K. Hansen
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They mean all the wooden huts. Just an imprecise translation...
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Eddie Harr
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Seriously? So they did a revision due to horrible translation and there is still bad translation issues? Did they not get anyone who spoke English as their first language, and who actually played the game, review these? Hell, I would have for free!
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Stephan Beal
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eddieharr wrote:
Seriously? So they did a revision due to horrible translation and there is still bad translation issues?


It gets more interesting, even: the v2 Heroes' and OL books both have different text for Wall Wrecker in their Skill Clarification sections, with different point costs for the skill. The Heroes' Book still has the wrong cost while the OL book corrects the cost.
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J P
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eddieharr wrote:
Seriously? So they did a revision due to horrible translation and there is still bad translation issues? Did they not get anyone who spoke English as their first language, and who actually played the game, review these? Hell, I would have for free!


Anyone who speaks English as their first language would know they meant you could use that skill on all of the wooden huts. IMO. If they had said "all of the huts" would you then ask "can I move through all of them at the same time?" This type of logical precision is how a machine thinks (i.e. "syntax error!"). There is a point when common sense and reason (which is different from logic) are needed.
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Eddie Harr
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Oh come on guys!
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James Hébert
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DancingFool wrote:

There is a point when common sense and reason (which is different from logic) are needed.


I disagree.

This kind of all-encompassing declaration leads to all kinds of issues in the world, I'm afraid. If I buy an automobile that turns left when I turn the steering wheel right, and they fix it so that "it's not that way any more," may I complain when I take it out for a spin and turn right and the radio comes on instead?

The common sense argument is not to respond, "Then don't turn right."

The point is, and I agree with the OP, that Monolith apparently made an effort to address their errors and still produced a product with errors. Well intended, maybe. Costly, maybe. Still problematic, definitely. I don't mind having to think about rules and their effects, but I DO expect to be given sufficient information and guidance to enjoy the experience without having to figure out basics.

It CAN be done. Hell, Portal made a huge leap forward with the 2.0 rules for Robinson Crusoe (note to bgg'er Paul Grogan, get in touch with Monolith!)

In this age, how hard is it to create an errata or FAQ, after all?


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Stephan Beal
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jhebert wrote:
In this age, how hard is it to create an errata or FAQ, after all?


Along the same lines: it's certainly more effort for Monolith to update both rulebooks with skill text clarifications (one of which (the Heroes' Book) is still wrong for Wall Wrecker) than it would be to simply update the PDF copy of the skill cards (which they haven't done - i downloaded and checked them today).
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J P
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jhebert wrote:
DancingFool wrote:

There is a point when common sense and reason (which is different from logic) are needed.


I disagree.

This kind of all-encompassing declaration leads to all kinds of issues in the world, I'm afraid. If I buy an automobile that turns left when I turn the steering wheel right, and they fix it so that "it's not that way any more," may I complain when I take it out for a spin and turn right and the radio comes on instead?

The common sense argument is not to respond, "Then don't turn right."

The point is, and I agree with the OP, that Monolith apparently made an effort to address their errors and still produced a product with errors. Well intended, maybe. Costly, maybe. Still problematic, definitely. I don't mind having to think about rules and their effects, but I DO expect to be given sufficient information and guidance to enjoy the experience without having to figure out basics.

It CAN be done. Hell, Portal made a huge leap forward with the 2.0 rules for Robinson Crusoe (note to bgg'er Paul Grogan, get in touch with Monolith!)

In this age, how hard is it to create an errata or FAQ, after all?




And I disagree with you as well. I actually think it's the reverse that causes all kinds of problems in the world. Far too often people obsess over the "letter of the law" while being unable to comprehend the "spirit of the law."

And your car analogy doesn't work because it isn't, well, analogous to this situation. At all. The question was about the phrase "... one of the wooden huts." This doesn't mean "only one hut." It means in a single action you can wreck one wall of one hut. Would it have been better if they said "a" hut?

I don't want to get into a philosophical debate about the differences between logical and rational thinking, but they are different. Logical thinking operates in closed systems of predefined axioms, postulates, etc. and you cannot escape the system which leaves no room for creative discovery. Computers and machines think in logical systems. This game is not a logical system, it is a rational system, which is why it is so open to creativity and rewards the rational/creative mind. The proof of this is borne out by the fact that you can't create a simple point system for the game. Point-based systems are logical systems. People with logical minds will have trouble with this game, which is shown by many of the posts I see, in particular that one guy who has been posting endlessly on the Kickstarter pages for Conan and MB for the last few weeks. The reason he has such trouble with the game is because he is thinking about everything logically and has a difficult time making rational/creative decisions.

On other things I agree. The fact that they still didn't correct the movement points spent on Wall Wrecker in the heroes' book is mind boggling.
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Ken H
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DancingFool wrote:
There is a point when common sense and reason (which is different from logic) are needed.


I wholeheartedly agree.
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Eddie Harr
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Well, when rules say "one building" then common sense leads me to believe you can only do it one time as in a once a game ability. Maybe it hurts Conan so he can't do it again. Who knows.

Of course I know it's not what they meant, but if I didn't know that then common sense and simply reading the rules would lead me to believe only one use. But I have hindsight, many wouldn't.
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Samuel Favre
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Every time you use wall wrecker you can only break one wall... One use = one wall. The rule is not at all ambiguous imho.

I'm pretty sure that if "all huts" was used, there were people asking "if your character is adjacent to two huts, can you break both with a single use of wall wrecker ?"
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Mathieu Hatt
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dYnkYn wrote:
Every time you use wall wrecker you can only break one wall... One use = one wall. The rule is not at all ambiguous imho.

I'm pretty sure that if "all huts" was used, there were people asking "if your character is adjacent to two huts, can you break both with a single use of wall wrecker ?"


I agree... this is becoming ridiculous.
 
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Eddie Harr
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"Use wall breaker once per wall." Easy. Took 5 seconds to think of the language. haha.
 
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Zed Lovecraft
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Sorry to jump in, but when playing on the INN map is it allowed to break the wall of the 2nd level corridor on the east side of the inn and then jump to the ground floor?
 
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K. Hansen
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Ashes001 wrote:
Sorry to jump in, but when playing on the INN map is it allowed to break the wall of the 2nd level corridor on the east side of the inn and then jump to the ground floor?


Nope, this from the 2.0 OL book:

Walls: A character with Wall Wrecker cannot use it to move across an outer wall of the inn or to move between areas of different elevations.
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Zed Lovecraft
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Thanks for the fast answer, much appreciated!
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Ben Lynch
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That guy is STILL posting non stop isn't he. SMH.
 
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