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Runebound (Third Edition)» Forums » General

Subject: Everything's fine, except... rss

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Andrea Mirabelli
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Hi guys,

I liked this game years ago (when pvp was still up), but now...
Everything is awesome: combat system, lore, graphic, miniatures, components, but...
how can a game be fun, when 3 players of 4 just farm for 2 hours or more without doing absolutely nothing in the final fight? I mean, I played with a friends, we farmed, we leveled up, we enjoyed the quest, and then... SCRATCH, I destroyed the dragon by myself with him standing aside, watching...
Is there some sort of official or unofficial expansion which introduce pvp, or at least some sort of competitive playing? Cause 3 players could just stand still on their spaces all game long while the 4th farms and the game would be the same...

Totally disappointed
 
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Julia
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There's one expansion that's structured as a pvp scenario: Runebound (Third Edition): Fall of the Dark Star – Scenario Pack. You can download the rules for this one from FFG's website, and then try adapting the rules to the other scenarios (i.e: challenging your opponents to gaint the opportunity to attack the final boss)
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Chris Broggi
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I'm confused by your issue. You won, they lost. They played poorly by not doing much of anything and let you win. How is that the game's fault?
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Walt MacEachern
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Play as Corbin and attack the other heroes.
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Julia
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broggi wrote:
I'm confused by your issue. You won, they lost. They played poorly by not doing much of anything and let you win. How is that the game's fault?


I think the OP wants an opportunity to attack and defeat the other players. At the moment (removing Corbin and Fall), there's no much direct interaction between the heroes in the game
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Dan Harrow
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Falcon88 wrote:
Hi guys,

I liked this game years ago (when pvp was still up), but now...
Everything is awesome: combat system, lore, graphic, miniatures, components, but...
how can a game be fun, when 3 players of 4 just farm for 2 hours or more without doing absolutely nothing in the final fight? I mean, I played with a friends, we farmed, we leveled up, we enjoyed the quest, and then... SCRATCH, I destroyed the dragon by myself with him standing aside, watching...
Is there some sort of official or unofficial expansion which introduce pvp, or at least some sort of competitive playing? Cause 3 players could just stand still on their spaces all game long while the 4th farms and the game would be the same...

Totally disappointed


There are a lot of players who didn't even use the PVP rules in Runebound 2, but I can understand that you want more player interaction. But there are other opportunities to mess with a player by disrupting their plans. For instance, instead of attacking someone to take an item or some gold, you can stop them from ever acquiring the item by discarding it from the shop if you don't want to buy it yourself.

And that game also ended when someone beat the big boss, so that's not really different here... There was never a co-op boss fight, so I'm not sure how the "I won the game and my friend was sad" gripe can really be addressed.



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David desJardins
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Falcon88 wrote:
I played with a friends, we farmed, we leveled up, we enjoyed the quest, and then... SCRATCH, I destroyed the dragon by myself with him standing aside, watching...


Why didn't he try to fight the dragon before you?
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Shayne Hull
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I also think some element of co-op might fix this, such as all working together to weaken and kill the dragon. Some of the guys I played with the first time (4 player game) thought this was the goal.

Maybe you could attack the dragon then run away or die and he doesn't heal, so then someone else can jump in and attack him. Not sure if this totally goes against the feel/idea of Runebound, but could be an interesting option.

The main way I see this improving the game is by making it shorter. Not many of my mates have 2+ hours to spare since they all have young families, and a game tends to get quite late. Playing as suggested, you could potentially spawn and attack the dragon sooner.
 
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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What the op tried to say was that this felt like a solo game. That's because it is.

Also, I think that the op tried to say that the sense of progression is unnecessary thwarted by an artifial race to a goal. You don't become a hero and gather epic gear to be unable to really use it, because you've missed your train that goes from here to the dragon or someone just camped near the boss spawnpoint.

The game mechanics are cool, but there's really no sense of purpose in this game. It's as if something's missing but I cannot really put my finger on it. Sometimes I feel, that maybe, just maybe, it should last longer. Heresy in a boardgaming world, I know.
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Dan Harrow
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rattkin wrote:
What the op tried to say was that this felt like a solo game. That's because it is.

Also, I think that the op tried to say that the sense of progression is unnecessary thwarted by an artifial race to a goal. You don't become a hero and gather epic gear to be unable to really use it, because you've missed your train that goes from here to the dragon or someone just camped near the boss spawnpoint.

The game mechanics are cool, but there's really no sense of purpose in this game. It's as if something's missing but I cannot really put my finger on it. Sometimes I feel, that maybe, just maybe, it should last longer. Heresy in a boardgaming world, I know.

To a similar point, that is why once a game of Runebound ends (and someone is technically declared the winner), my gaming group always provides the opportunity going around the table for each player to test their mettle against the villain.

I feel like it's a good way for everyone to come to that realization of their character's strength--that which they spent the entire game building toward. And from a less competitive perspective, it also helps alleviate that feeling of "I spent two hours building up my strength and the game just ended", since everyone gets to feel like a winner anyway, if they can still best the big boss.
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Andrea Mirabelli
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rattkin wrote:
What the op tried to say was that this felt like a solo game. That's because it is.

Also, I think that the op tried to say that the sense of progression is unnecessary thwarted by an artifial race to a goal. You don't become a hero and gather epic gear to be unable to really use it, because you've missed your train that goes from here to the dragon or someone just camped near the boss spawnpoint.

The game mechanics are cool, but there's really no sense of purpose in this game. It's as if something's missing but I cannot really put my finger on it. Sometimes I feel, that maybe, just maybe, it should last longer. Heresy in a boardgaming world, I know.


This is exactly what I mean. Runebound is not competitive, since there is no competition at all in fighting the boss before the 'allies' do (random dice result to move) or in 'stealing' items from the market, as someone suggested, since items are randomly generated. This is not even cooperative, since there is no cooperation at all and everyone act exactly like he's playing alone.

The point is this: this is an unusual solitaire on a board. I'll check the suggested expansion and its rules, but I think I am going to sell this game since every other game do its job better... and it's a pity, cause lore and combat are really good.
 
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David desJardins
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Falcon88 wrote:
This is exactly what I mean. Runebound is not competitive, since there is no competition at all in fighting the boss before the 'allies' do (random dice result to move)


I don't know what you mean here. Runebound is a race to defeat the boss before anyone else does. To win the race, you have to increase your strength faster and/or be willing to take more risk in fighting the boss. It's exactly as competitive as the 100 Meter race at the Olympics. I've never heard it said that's not competitive because everyone runs in their own lane.
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Sebastian Zarzycki
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Falcon88 wrote:
This is exactly what I mean. Runebound is not competitive, since there is no competition at all in fighting the boss before the 'allies' do (random dice result to move)


I don't know what you mean here. Runebound is a race to defeat the boss before anyone else does. To win the race, you have to increase your strength faster and/or be willing to take more risk in fighting the boss. It's exactly as competitive as the 100 Meter race at the Olympics. I've never heard it said that's not competitive because everyone runs in their own lane.


Technically, yes, it is competitive, no doubt about that, and yes - it is a race. It's just that in 100 meters race, the run is the main and only mean to achieve the goal, so in this way, it's "pure", if you will. I think that "race" in a fantasy game of fighting monsters and gathering loot just doesn't work very well - it clashes with how the game progresses and what it is about - hence the perceived "lack of" competition. Fantasy game of that kind shouldn't be about speed, but about "epicness", however hard to define. It's elusive and hard to pinpoint, because if not race, then what? How should that "epicness" manifest itself? There's no easy way to introduce another mechanic/resolution/climax other than "let's fight each other" or "who is going to do something first".

In case of Runebound, I'm not a fan of fixed 2 act game. I preferred the World of Warcraft: Adventure Game, where people got somewhat more meaningful quests and whoever did all their quests up to certain value, was the winner. Sure, there was some luck of the draw (for quests) and sure, it was also a race, but it just worked better - and I think that a significant portion of it, was because it just lasted longer. There was this timeframe in which you were already quite geared and strong, and there was time to use that power, to feel epic. You could lose, but you had a story to tell. "You won, but I killed that epic monster on red level, that was awesome!". It doesn't always have to be about battling each other. But it has to be meaningful. In Runebound, the story starts with "You won" and ends right there.

In Runebound, you're never strong and have a chance to manifest it. You run like crazy to get some gear and then run again to get to the boss first, hoping that what you have will be enough. This leaves you with 3 climaxes:

a) you were undergeared but somehow got lucky with battle and win
b) you were undergeared, you rushed it, got unlucky in battle and lost
c) you were properly geared, but too late: someone else was faster because he chose a or b.

It's just... hard to enjoy that kind of resolution.
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Julia
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DaviddesJ wrote:
Falcon88 wrote:
This is exactly what I mean. Runebound is not competitive, since there is no competition at all in fighting the boss before the 'allies' do (random dice result to move)


I don't know what you mean here. Runebound is a race to defeat the boss before anyone else does. To win the race, you have to increase your strength faster and/or be willing to take more risk in fighting the boss. It's exactly as competitive as the 100 Meter race at the Olympics. I've never heard it said that's not competitive because everyone runs in their own lane.


True. At the same time, if you want to have a boxe match, a 100 meter race is a turn off. Maybe "competitive" isn't the perfect adjective here, but it's pretty evident the OP wants the opportunity to battle his opponents, a la Wiz-War or similar, which at the moment is very rarely considered as an option in this game
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David desJardins
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Runebound is competitive, but not very interactive. Some people will like that and some won't.
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The Rake
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I have no issues with the game as is but for the people that feel like the OP, I wonder if an expansion could be made that does something like awards "Fame" points for stuff you do in the game.

For example, trading goods gives 3 fame points, slaying a monster provides how ever many hit points the monster had as fame points, completing quests gives X amount of fame point, etc. When it comes down to the boss character, a trigger happens and at that point everyone must battle him whether they're ready or not. Thematically you could say they all fight him together at one time but just perform individual battles as normal. If you win you get so many fame points and if you loose you loose so many fame points. Total up all of the fame points and see who won the game. At least this way one person doesn't just instantly win the game and everyone else feels like they wasted their time as the OP stated. You would win by how well you played overall throughout the game. Just an idea off of the top of my head.
 
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David Williams
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trakes wrote:
I have no issues with the game as is but for the people that feel like the OP, I wonder if an expansion could be made that does something like awards "Fame" points for stuff you do in the game.


Try this: 1 Fame per gold (including the gold value of assets held). 2 Fame per trophy (including the trophy cost of learned skills).

I don't think that would be far off. Getting stronger involves acquiring assets and skills, which cost gold and trophies. And there's a fairly solid value of about 2g per trophy, I believe.
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