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Subject: Trump doing end runs around established procedure rss

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Jon Badolato
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Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !



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jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?
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Donald
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TheDashi wrote:

So?


So Trump is making decisions with nation-wide and international ramifications with out consulting available advisors and counsel. Making possibly illegal decisions that at best will make him & the USA look like lack witted fools and at worse infringing on peoples rights.

I seriously wonder if Trump does not know any better in these cases. Does he not know the procedure, not know he even has people to look over stuff to tighten the wording if nothing else?

Or has be bought into the neocon "Obama is a tyrant" line and genuinely thinks he can do what ever he wants with executive orders because "Obama did it first".

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TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?


So this

Quote:
Trump also has caused alarm in the European Union with a line in his executive order on immigration instructing agencies to exclude foreigners from privacy protections, threatening to undermine years of intense negotiations over the sharing of commercial data and law enforcement information.

Trump’s aides didn’t consult agency officials who hashed out those agreements before he signed the order, according to two people familiar with the situation — another example of the White House taking action without the usual vetting that past presidents used to avoid a problem exactly like this one. Now those same officials and lawmakers who were blindsided are scrambling to reassure companies and European allies that the executive order doesn’t have the power to undo the agreements.

“It’s just a stick they’re beating foreigners with, without giving any thought to the diplomatic repercussions,” said a federal official who requested anonymity because the Trump administration has prohibited talking to journalists. “If agencies and Congress had been consulted or even given a heads-up, we would’ve been able to deal with this proactively and it wouldn’t have been an issue that ginned up the Europeans.”


http://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/trump-immigration-orde...

Would have kind of been nice to see beforehand whether any of the Executive Orders he gave actually violated agreements we have with other nations.

Makes him look less like a complete idiot that has no idea of what he is doing. Something our allies would actually appreciate
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Jon Badolato
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TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?





Donald and Kumitedad have nicely explained why this is a problem. In general the president should be utilizing the legal counsel he's given access to so they could vett his ideas for any illegalities or concepts which could potentially lead to lawsuits or political fallout. He didn't, hence the existing lawsuits.
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Moron going to doing moronic things.
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jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !


Nor did they consult with the State Department (consular officers overseas issue visas) or the Department of Homeland Security (immigration officials who handle entry into the US at airports, etc).
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I think the point is to go ahead with them, test the system to the breaking point, see what happens.
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jonb wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?





Donald and Kumitedad have nicely explained why this is a problem. In general the president should be utilizing the legal counsel he's given access to so they could vett his ideas for any illegalities or concepts which could potentially lead to lawsuits or political fallout. He didn't, hence the existing lawsuits.


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?
 
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Claire Anderson
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Yeah! Who has time for shit like the law and checks and balances. They're just holding Trump back from his true potential.
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TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?





Donald and Kumitedad have nicely explained why this is a problem. In general the president should be utilizing the legal counsel he's given access to so they could vett his ideas for any illegalities or concepts which could potentially lead to lawsuits or political fallout. He didn't, hence the existing lawsuits.


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?


Yeah, to hell with the rule of law.
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Sykurmoli wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !





So?





Donald and Kumitedad have nicely explained why this is a problem. In general the president should be utilizing the legal counsel he's given access to so they could vett his ideas for any illegalities or concepts which could potentially lead to lawsuits or political fallout. He didn't, hence the existing lawsuits.


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?


Yeah, to hell with the rule of law.


"Procedure?" Or "Law?"
 
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Greg Michealson
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jonb wrote:
Either way you slice it it's either outright incompetence or a lot of arrogance as Trump avoids established procedures. Apparently, before signing his executive order on immigration he failed to consult his legal department which usually advises on those things:

Before the President issued the order, the White House did not seek the legal guidance of the Office of Legal Counsel, the Justice Department office that interprets the law for the executive branch. A source said the executive order did not follow the standard agency review process that's typically overseen by the National Security Council, though the source couldn't specifically say if that included the decision to not have the order go through the Office of Legal Counsel.

Epic fail !



He's "anti-establishment" (code word for clueless on what it takes to be President) so expect much more of this going forward.
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James King
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Koldfoot wrote:
Trump doing end runs around established procedure

File that under Refreshing


So you think not taking legal advice before trying to legislate is a good idea then?
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David Dearlove
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Koldfoot wrote:
Trump doing end runs around established procedure

File that under Refreshing

Yes, I release that the new populists believe that amateurism is the correct way to run a nation but refreshing is an interesting word for the danger it puts the US in once the professionals in other countries start flexing their muscles.
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DavidDearlove wrote:
Yes, I release that the new populists believe that amateurism is the correct way to run a nation but refreshing is an interesting word for the danger it puts the US in once the professionals in other countries start flexing their muscles.

Wait a minute... are you telling me that "amateurs prevailing against professionals" isn't the essence of how you guys teach the American Revolution in school?!
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Mac Mcleod
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Why waste time consulting lawyers if you are going to ignore court rulings anyway...

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trum...

Quote:
US Customs and Border Protection agents are ignoring a federal judge’s stay on President Trump’s immigration blacklist against seven majority Muslim countries and deporting people legally traveling to the states, according to attorneys representing those detained at airports across the country.

“Rogue customs and Border Patrol agents continue to try to get people onto planes,” Becca Heller, director of the International Refugee Assistance Project, told reporters on Sunday, according to the Guardian. “A lot of people have been handcuffed, a lot of people who don’t speak English are being coerced into taking involuntary departures.”


These agents need to be fired. But they probably won't be.

My Word!

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Has anyone mentioned the Constitutional consequences of the order since it is Congress (not the President) which has the authority to establish an uniform Rule of Naturalization.
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TheDashi wrote:


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?
Ever been on an airplane?

Did it get you to your destination?

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David Dearlove
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kuhrusty wrote:
DavidDearlove wrote:
Yes, I release that the new populists believe that amateurism is the correct way to run a nation but refreshing is an interesting word for the danger it puts the US in once the professionals in other countries start flexing their muscles.

Wait a minute... are you telling me that "amateurs prevailing against professionals" isn't the essence of how you guys teach the American Revolution in school?!

No it was a civil war. Once the Americans had plenty of French professionals they could win set piece battles. The brief loss of command of the sea doomed the war. But basically the US wasn't worth it economically.
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Pinook wrote:
TheDashi wrote:


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?
Ever been on an airplane?

Did it get you to your destination?



Yeah. It was a blanket statement. I couldn't have possibly been referring to our slow moving do nothing government.
 
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Jason Reid
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TheDashi wrote:
Pinook wrote:
TheDashi wrote:


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?
Ever been on an airplane?

Did it get you to your destination?



Yeah. It was a blanket statement.


Big shock. Screw precise statements. When have they ever won an argument?
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jasonwocky wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
Pinook wrote:
TheDashi wrote:


Screw procedure. How much has procedure gotten done?
Ever been on an airplane?

Did it get you to your destination?



Yeah. It was a blanket statement.


Big shock. Screw precise statements. When have they ever won an argument?


Yep, leave off the rest of the quote.
And fail to realize that context matters right?
On again with the personal attacks to live in the toxicity of RSP right?
 
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