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Subject: Innovation - only making ages 6 or 7 rss

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Brad Wilkins

Tigard
Oregon
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Howdy do all, Let me first start by saying I only have about 5 games under my belt. Mostly 2 players and a couple 3 player games. With that being said .
As we progress , we seem to empty all of the age piles before we move on. I do not think we mave moved into age 8 at all. We may have drawn an age 8 card.And very rarely do we "return" cards to restart lower piles.
Is this normal? To me I feel we are missing something vital to the game.
Any thoughts on what we may be missing or if this is as intended for 2 or 3 players?
Thank you
Masz
 
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W. Eric Martin
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Maszaan wrote:
Howdy do all, Let me first start by saying I only have about 5 games under my belt. Mostly 2 players and a couple 3 player games. With that being said .
As we progress , we seem to empty all of the age piles before we move on. I do not think we mave moved into age 8 at all. We may have drawn an age 8 card.And very rarely do we "return" cards to restart lower piles.
Is this normal? To me I feel we are missing something vital to the game.
Any thoughts on what we may be missing or if this is as intended for 2 or 3 players?

The main rule that people miss — and I missed it as well initially — is that you can't claim a standard achievement unless you have both (1) enough points to do so and (2) a face-up card in your tableau of the same age as that achievement of higher. Thus, you can't claim the age 5 achievement unless you have at least 25 points and at least a card of age 5 in your tableau.
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Ali Cali
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Maszaan wrote:
Howdy do all, Let me first start by saying I only have about 5 games under my belt. Mostly 2 players and a couple 3 player games. With that being said .
As we progress , we seem to empty all of the age piles before we move on. I do not think we mave moved into age 8 at all. We may have drawn an age 8 card.And very rarely do we "return" cards to restart lower piles.
Is this normal? To me I feel we are missing something vital to the game.
Any thoughts on what we may be missing or if this is as intended for 2 or 3 players?
Thank you
Masz

Each game is wildly different, but there are many times when we're leaving behind piles of cards of lower ages. Blue cards especially help get up in age, like Mathematics, but there is also Alchemy, Paper, etc. One of the overall lines of strategy is to get ahead in age while there are lower-aged cards for others to draw.
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Tony Corson
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I've only played about 20-25 games so far, so others could probably answer quite a bit more accurately, but in my experience it depends on the game. Some games seem to fight it out in the lower ages and we empty most of the piles. Some we tech ahead really quickly and have someone pushing to get up to the later ages, leaving the lower ones with cards still in them. I've played mostly two player so far, and we're definitely still figuring out combos and interactions, but that's my two cents.
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Brad Wilkins

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Oregon
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Well you hit the nail, We over looked the 2nd part of the rule about Achieving. This shoul dchange it up a bit.
Secondly I noticed in Rahdos review he wasnt scoring cards that he activated the dogma on.Instad they stayed in play.Of course now, I can not find where I read that in the rules about scoring them as you activate them.
I am going to watch the extended review and see how he scores points ,besides from dogmas.
Both of these will definetly change the whole game.

thank you
Masz
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Jorgen Peddersen
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It does sound a little odd.

Most of my games (generally 3 player or the 4-player team game), result in the first 3 Ages or so being mostly cleared out, with many people finding ways to skip ahead in later ages.

Mathematics is definitely one of the easiest ones to use to skip some Ages. I'm surprised you haven't seen it happen yet (perhaps it got scored).

Are you perhaps taking a lot of Draw actions, or Melding cards that you don't need? Drawing can be useful in some situations, but you shouldn't rely on it. Melding cards that you don't intend to Dogma that also don't help your icon count is a wasted action.

I find that many people new to the game are afraid to share a Dogma. You shouldn't be unless it helps your opponent/s more than it helps you. Remember that you get a free Draw afterwards if an opponent shares, so you are usually getting the better deal.
 
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W. Eric Martin
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Maszaan wrote:
Secondly I noticed in Rahdos review he wasnt scoring cards that he activated the dogma on.Instad they stayed in play.Of course now, I can not find where I read that in the rules about scoring them as you activate them.

That section is not in the rules; you have imagined that rule into creation.

I haven't watched Richard's video, but the only actions you can take in Innovation are draw, meld, achieve, and use dogma, so dogma powers are the only way to score — and you score only if a dogma specifically tells you to put something in your score pile (or a dogma gives you that option and you choose to do so, or a dogma allows you to swap cards into your score pile, or...); you don't score for everything you do.
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Jorgen Peddersen
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Maszaan wrote:
Secondly I noticed in Rahdos review he wasnt scoring cards that he activated the dogma on.Instad they stayed in play.Of course now, I can not find where I read that in the rules about scoring them as you activate them.

That would be because it's not in the rules! You definitely do not generally Score a card after using a Dogma action on it, unless the Dogma action allows you to do so.
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Brad Wilkins

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We generally dont share at all in fear of helping others buy allowing them to do the action as well.
Im getting more excited to play this again asap
 
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W. Eric Martin
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Maszaan wrote:
We generally dont share at all in fear of helping others buy allowing them to do the action as well.
Im getting more excited to play this again asap

Sharing a dogma is separate from scoring; any dogma (other than a demand) can be shared if another player has at least as many icons of the appropriate type.

That said, don't be afraid to share! You get a free card draw (of the appropriate age) when an opponent shares a dogma that you use, and with experience you can learn when sharing will have little to no effect on an opponent — and even when it can hurt them!
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Brian B.
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W Eric Martin wrote:
That said, don't be afraid to share! You get a free card draw (of the appropriate age) when an opponent shares a dogma that you use, and with experience you can learn when sharing will have little to no effect on an opponent — and even when it can hurt them!


Ah yes, nothing like suddenly having Sailing ("Draw and Meld a 1") reappear on your board late in the game and seeing that the age 1 stack has one little itty-bitty card there. So your opponent has to meld it, hopefully on top of some age 8 card they were going to destroy you with, you get a higher age card from Sailing's dogma, and then the best part? Because your opponent shared in the action, you get a bonus draw. Yeah, I've pulled that one off more than once whistledevildevil.
 
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Andy Latto
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Maszaan wrote:
As we progress , we seem to empty all of the age piles before we move on.


This sounds like you haven't tried the strategy of gaining what I call a "technological advantage"; if I am drawing 6's, and you are drawing 3's, I have a big advantage over you.

Any time you have a chance to draw from a pile, using a dogma, that is higher than your current top card, when there are still cards left in the deck for the current top card, , you should strongly consider doing so. If you draw a 5 because there are no 3s or 4s left, that does not give you an advantage, since your opponent is also drawing 5s. If you are drawing 5s when there are still lots of 3's and 4's left, and our opponent is still drawing 3's, that gives you a big advantage.

Some examples of cards that let you do this:

Mathematics
Tools
Writing
Printing Press
Alchemy
Education
Atomic Theory
Experimentation.

Try using these card to "tech up" whenever you can, and you'll see how useful it can be to be drawing from a pile while your opponent is still slogging through the lower piles.
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Mark T
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W Eric Martin wrote:

...don't be afraid to share! You get a free card draw (of the appropriate age) when an opponent shares a dogma that you use, and with experience you can learn when sharing will have little to no effect on an opponent — and even when it can hurt them!


Almost all of my experience is with 2 player games. I find that, most of the time in a 2p game, I don't like to share as it does not seem like there is enough benefit to me compared to what the other player gets. I may have to revisit my thinking though. I don't think I have encountered many situations such as described where it hurts the other player to share. We also just discovered during our last play the mandatory nature of sharing dogma. We thought you always got to choose whether to share even if it did not say "you may".
 
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