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Subject: Only 2 KS games in the top 25 on BGG? rss

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Misha Nosiara
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A quick look just now reveals that only 2 games in the to 25 originated on Kickstarter, Scythe and Blood Rage. Of these Jamey Stegmaier has stated that he is finished with KS. CMON, who produced Blood Rage have said they are backing away from KS going forward.

Will KS end up being for niche products only, with little chance that highly popular games will originate from this source?

Just wondering....

 
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No One
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~V
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John McD
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Veero wrote:


~V


They'll both be back. And if KS turns out to be part of how smaller publishers grow, they'll be others in their footsteps.
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Drake Coldwinter
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CMON stepping away from KS ?

They have just launched world of smog and announced Rising Sun KS afterwards...

They seem to be incrementing their KS presence, not the contrary...
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Matt Brown
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Misha99 wrote:
A quick look just now reveals that only 2 games in the to 25 originated on Kickstarter, Scythe and Blood Rage. Of these Jamey Stegmaier has stated that he is finished with KS. CMON, who produced Blood Rage have said they are backing away from KS going forward.

Will KS end up being for niche products only, with little chance that highly popular games will originate from this source?

Just wondering....



Rising Sun and Thunderstone Quest are both coming via KS. Gloomhaven feels like one of the bigger no brain Top 25 games in the making. I think if you expand beyond the Top 25 you will find a number of KS games fairly high up. Avalon, Arcadia Quest, The Gallerist, Star Realms, both Viticulture games are all in the Top 100.
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Brennan Sheremeto
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drakecoldwinter wrote:
CMON stepping away from KS ?

They have just launched world of smog and announced Rising Sun KS afterwards...

They seem to be incrementing their KS presence, not the contrary...

I believe they said they were only going to do a 2-3 kickstarters a year going forward and they rest of their games via regular channels. I assume the ones they will do are the big mini heavy games.
 
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Alexander Winnefeld
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Does this imply that everything out of the BGG Top 25 is a niche product? And why is 2 out of 25 such a bad quota? I'm confused.

By the way, I think in 2015 the quota was 0 out of 25, so you could use the exact same numbers to proclaim the enormous growth of significance of Kickstarter games and open a "will Kickstarter dominate the future board game market" thread.
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Brad Miller
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It's almost like really good games don't need to be crowdfunded. Lots of mediocre games, but ooohhhh, those minis!!!, being created with other people's money. Whatever floats your boat though.

As you can see, not a big KS fan here

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Brandon
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Misha99 wrote:

Will KS end up being for niche products only, with little chance that highly popular games will originate from this source?


You mean, will KS end up being for what KS was originally for?
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Justen Brown
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Windopaene wrote:
It's almost like really good games don't need to be crowdfunded. Lots of mediocre games, but ooohhhh, those minis!!!, being created with other people's money. Whatever floats your boat though.

As you can see, not a big KS fan here



Mediocre games don't need to be crowdfunded either.

There's no relevance to only 2 KS games being in the top 25 considering KS board games are still the vast minority of what is produced.
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Thom0909
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[q="gatekeeper86"]Does this imply that everything out of the BGG Top 25 is a niche product? And why is 2 out of 25 such a bad quota? I'm confused.[/q

Without knowing what % of all games are KS, 2 of 25 is meaningless.

Of course, go back several years and there were no KS games.
 
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Ess Why
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jaybeethree wrote:


There's no relevance to only 2 KS games being in the top 25 considering KS board games are still the vast minority of what is produced.


This

2/25 = 8%

There are over 80000 games in the database which would need >6400 KS games for 8%.

One could make the argument using this meaningless statistic that KS games are overrepresented
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Justen Brown
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esswhy wrote:
jaybeethree wrote:


There's no relevance to only 2 KS games being in the top 25 considering KS board games are still the vast minority of what is produced.


This

2/25 = 8%

There are over 80000 games in the database which would need >6400 KS games for 8%.

One could make the argument using this meaningless statistic that KS games are overrepresented


And we do have data for that! According to Kickstarter's stats last time I checked a few weeks ago, there were 10,000-ish successfully funded "games" since 2009 when it started. Kickstarter lumps anything interactive a "game" so that includes board games, miniatures, expansions, pen and paper, Labyrinth esque physical puzzles, video games, athletic products that aren't clothing, chrome for games like dice and components, etc.

So even if we were generous and said board games make up 50% of that metric, it's still a splash in the ocean.
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Geoffrey Burrell
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This is a don't always believe the hype situation. That is why only two KS games are in the top 25.
 
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M M
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And? As far as I can remember KS for games is really only 3-4 years old. At least as a large thing.
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Matt Brown
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Mat628 wrote:
And? As far as I can remember KS for games is really only 3-4 years old. At least as a large thing.


I had been doing a Top 50 KS geeklist for the past few years. I haven't done one this year yet, but last year was the first time I thought the list wasn't terrible. It will be at least 5-7 years before we can get a decent data point in terms of KS games.
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Trent Boardgamer
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KS or Not, as long as I have a way of buying the games I want, I couldn't really care less how they initially come to exist.
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Misha99 wrote:
Will KS end up being for niche products only, with little chance that highly popular games will originate from this source?


One of the reasons creators put games on KS is to produce a game that wouldn't make it to retail. While I'd say *all* hobby games are niche, this still means that a KS game won't be as popular as a retail game. And I'd say that the top 25 BGG game sales are still dwarfed by Magic, Warhammer, Munchkin, Apples to Apples, and other verboten games.

I'm fine with niche. I'm backing a science-fiction Steampunk boardgame, and I don't expect anyone on BGG to back it, since Steampunk isn't a popular theme on BGG. At the same time, my favorite BGG game is Dominion, which has been selling retail for years. It's all good.
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John Smith
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I am really enjoying the lavish productions Eagle Gryphon are doing for Vital Lacerda's games. KS seems appropriate to me to allow Eagle to budget for a high quality production. Long may it continue!

I suppose Vital's heavy games are niche, I'd love to see one of his KS games break $1,000,000.

I didn't know about Stonemaier and KS. Does anyone have a link to info please? I'd love to know why Jamey is done with KS. Not that it would put me off his games, I'm just interested to know what works or doesn't work for publishers because I like the idea that they can hopefully secure funds without going bust.
 
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Jennifer Derrick
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blackmeeple wrote:


I didn't know about Stegmaier and KS. Does anyone have a link to info please? I'd love to know why Jamey is done with KS. Not that it would put me off his games, I'm just interested to know what works or doesn't work for publishers because I like the idea that they can hopefully secure funds without going bust.


He did c couple of blog posts on the subject:

http://stonemaiergames.com/lessons-learned-from-quitting-kic... (Part 1)

http://stonemaiergames.com/lessons-learned-from-quitting-kic... (Part 2)
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Mark Wilson
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As others have noted, 25 is a very arbitrary cutoff. And it's not a measure of quality so much as popularity. And 2/25 relative to the number of KS games vs. traditionally sold games might actually be high compared to what we'd expect. And the increasing specificity with which "niche" is used in this context also amuses me. One might argue - given the popularity of board games that are traditionally disparaged on BGG - that the top 25 itself is just as "niche" within the whole of the hobby. More people know about Exploding Kittens (a record-breaking KS) than Pandemic Legacy, no? And it may be that the exception proves the rule, but the aforementioned Scythe is proof that it can be done on both fronts.

So like, my "game of 2016" was a KS release. I think it's floundering somewhere around 800 in the rankings, but everyone I've taught it to loves it (for the curious, it's World's Fair 1893). I've inspired 1-2 others to purchase it as well, which isn't a first for me with KS releases. But does the low BGG ranking say anything at all about the distribution platform? Of course not.

It would be interesting to see some statistics that dig into this a bit more fully. I like the line of OP's inquiry. I just don't think we can say much with the information as presented.
 
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Richard Sampson
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The Top 25 seems pretty limited and arbitrary but sure let's go with that. Of the top 25, only 10 are from the last 5 years (2 of them being the KS games).

Also expanding it beyond Top 25
Top 25 - 2 (8%)
Top 100 - 7 (7%)
Top 200 - 17 (8.5%)
Top 500 - 61 (12.2%)


If 8-10% of the best games out there are from KS, I would say that says KS has been pretty successful in putting out good stuff.
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CHAPEL
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Well, probably for the most part Kickstarter games are fairly crappy.
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Dandelion
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having any KS games in the top 25 is a big deal. Having 2 means KS is really successful, IMO. If you had asked me years ago, I would have predicted exactly 0 crowdfunded games would become highly popular on BGG and in general. I might have said: if it's such a good game, why would it need to be crowdfunded, etc.

I'm not sure why the bar lowering thing is happening here...at what point would you call it a lot? 10? 15? when the entire top 25 is non-traditional publishing methods?
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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2 out of the top 25 is 8%. What percentage of games in the BGG database are released through Kickstarter? Probably significantly less than 8%. Therefore, KS games have a higher than average representation in the top 25.
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