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Subject: Free Speech attacked in Berkeley rss

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Jeff Staff
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The far left shut down debate with violence. Trump threatens to cut funding.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/trump-threatens-to-defund-berkele...
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J.D. Hall
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Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.
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Damian
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Diabolik771 wrote:
Trump threatens to cut funding.

Good luck with that. Funding doesn't work that way.
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Mike Stiles
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Basic rule for Berkeley kids is that they've got something to prove.
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Pontifex Maximus
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damiangerous wrote:
Diabolik771 wrote:
Trump threatens to cut funding.

Good luck with that. Funding doesn't work that way.


But even the threat of it gets the Far Right tingly all over.
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Pete Goch
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This is exactly what the yippie dog fellow was hoping would happen. I mean Berkeley as a host for a alt nazi rally? What else was ever going to happen. Would you honestly expect Berkeleyites not to protest?

Now, the idiots who showed up (some self styled anarchists apparently) and started lobbing molotov cocktails and such are a different story.
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damiangerous wrote:
Diabolik771 wrote:
Trump threatens to cut funding.

Good luck with that. Funding doesn't work that way.
It is pretty ridiculous when your President has less knowledge of how our Federal government works than an immigrant studying for the civics part of the citizenship test.

This Just In: Trump threatens to add his signature to the Declaration Of Independence if UK citizens don't stop asking him to stay home.
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R. Frazier
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The narrative is that Berkeley student protests got out of hand. This isn't correct. There was a peaceful protest and the talk was expected to go forward. The protest was against the message of the talk, not attempting to prevent the talk from occurring.

150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.

The identities, political ideologies and motives of the black bloc rioters is unknown. They could be far left, far right, anarchists, trolls "in it for the lulz" hired shills of either party, etc., etc.
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TheChin! wrote:
damiangerous wrote:
Diabolik771 wrote:
Trump threatens to cut funding.

Good luck with that. Funding doesn't work that way.
It is pretty ridiculous when your President has less knowledge of how our Federal government works than an immigrant studying for the civics part of the citizenship test.

This Just In: Trump threatens to add his signature to the Declaration Of Independence if UK citizens don't stop asking him to stay home.


Extended play for that trick shot.
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Pete Goch
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More likely paid by the alt nazis to show up. False flag and all that, right?

It suits their narrative to a tee after all.
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Jeff Staff
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rylfrazier wrote:


150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.

The identities, political ideologies and motives of the black bloc rioters is unknown. They could be far left, far right, anarchists, trolls "in it for the lulz" hired shills of either party, etc., etc.

You are really dishonest...
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R. Frazier
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Well yeah other than the fact that there's no proof of that whatsoever that the rioters were even students, let alone "affiliated with the faculty" and BUSD issued a statement strongly condeming the violence immediately. But in the absence of evidence, why not assume your personal prejudices against "big college" are justified.
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Jeff Staff
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rylfrazier wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Well yeah other than the fact that there's no proof of that whatsoever that the rioters were even students, let alone "affiliated with the faculty" and BUSD issued a statement strongly condeming the violence immediately. But in the absence of evidence, why not assume your personal prejudices against "big college" are justified.

Maybe it's time your side starts to "clean its house" and go after these guys. It really puts the left in a bad light, worse than the normal whiny SJW stuff.
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J.D. Hall
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Yes, it bears investigating. As you may or may not have noticed in my original post (I bolded it for you), I said I hoped the rioters were arrested. Which means by the local police. Which means they have to investigate what happened. So, ergo and forthwith, an investigation into what happened. If the unlikely scenario is proven that university administrators condoned and/or encouraged violence at a protest rally, I would hope they would be immediately fired and possibly charged with inciting a riot.

However, until an investigation determines these facts, I would hesitate to say much about them. As an example, I heard the claim that the people throwing Molotov cocktails at the cops were "outside agitators." Note that I did NOT include that in my statement. I used to be a police reporter, and I can assure you that much of what one thinks might have happened in the immediate aftermath of a crime often times turns out to be something different. My apologies for showing restraint.
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Pete Goch
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Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Well yeah other than the fact that there's no proof of that whatsoever that the rioters were even students, let alone "affiliated with the faculty" and BUSD issued a statement strongly condeming the violence immediately. But in the absence of evidence, why not assume your personal prejudices against "big college" are justified.


Given that (sometimes violent) opposition to conservative speakers on college campuses is common as dirt, it's a safe assumption.



If we're just going to make shit up why don't we assume that they were agitators paid by the alt nazis to create the exact drama they wanted to see unfold?
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Eric Tama
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Black bloc has been around in the US for over 30 years, why is anyone surprised by what those adrenaline junkies do? Black bloc is gonna black bloc, no big deal. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_bloc
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Ken
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rylfrazier wrote:
The narrative is that Berkeley student protests got out of hand. This isn't correct. There was a peaceful protest and the talk was expected to go forward. The protest was against the message of the talk, not attempting to prevent the talk from occurring.


When you break stuff and start fires, this is a "peaceful protest?"

Quote:
150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.


And then the crowd held a dance party and required multiple warnings from police to disperse. The optics were awful. If the crowd had actually stepped in to stop the "black bloc" rioters, then I'd be more impressed.

I'm all for free speech, but what happened is pretty hard to excuse. Even if everything you say is correct, the crowd (and anyone that helped organize the protest) really dropped the ball.
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Diabolik771 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:


150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.

The identities, political ideologies and motives of the black bloc rioters is unknown. They could be far left, far right, anarchists, trolls "in it for the lulz" hired shills of either party, etc., etc.

You are really dishonest...
Then so are the police.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2017/02/0...
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Pete Goch
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When in reality what we have is a group of self styled anarchists who have been hijacking protests for years:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

Quote:
Some were attacked by the agitators -- who are a part of an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years, said Dan Mogulof, UC Berkeley spokesman.
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Lee Fisher
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Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


They did officially condemn it.
What would be the constitutional right here?
 
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Ken
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TheOneTrueZeke wrote:
When in reality what we have is a group of self styled anarchists who have been hijacking protests for years:

http://www.cnn.com/2017/02/01/us/milo-yiannopoulos-berkeley/

Quote:
Some were attacked by the agitators -- who are a part of an anarchist group known as the "Black Bloc" that has been causing problems in Oakland for years, said Dan Mogulof, UC Berkeley spokesman.


Then the organizers should have been prepared for that and probably talked with the "real" protestors about how to respond.

So should the police, but if you know your protest could be used by another group and that this won't play well in the press, it's sorta important to be prepared.

"Hey guys, if Black Bloc shows up, we want you to disperse ASAP and help the police in any way you can. If we don't, then this gets painted as..."
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Pete Goch
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Diabolik771 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:


150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.

The identities, political ideologies and motives of the black bloc rioters is unknown. They could be far left, far right, anarchists, trolls "in it for the lulz" hired shills of either party, etc., etc.

You are really dishonest...


He's being more honest than you. You're trying to identify these guys with the "far left" when no such thing is known. These idiots have their own motivations which they aren't really sharing with anyone.

If you'd been honest enough to look more deeply into the situation you would have known that.
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R. Frazier
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Drew1365 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Well yeah other than the fact that there's no proof of that whatsoever that the rioters were even students, let alone "affiliated with the faculty" and BUSD issued a statement strongly condeming the violence immediately. But in the absence of evidence, why not assume your personal prejudices against "big college" are justified.


Given that (sometimes violent) opposition to conservative speakers on college campuses is common as dirt, it's a safe assumption.


And by that logic because Trump is a racist and many Trump supporters are racist, it's reasonable to assume that any specific Trump voter is racist.
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rylfrazier wrote:
The narrative is that Berkeley student protests got out of hand. This isn't correct. There was a peaceful protest and the talk was expected to go forward. The protest was against the message of the talk, not attempting to prevent the talk from occurring.

150 masked "black bloc" rioters with no known affiliation arrived and started setting fires and breaking things.

The identities, political ideologies and motives of the black bloc rioters is unknown. They could be far left, far right, anarchists, trolls "in it for the lulz" hired shills of either party, etc., etc.

Yep: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/Protesters-storm-Milo-...

Yiannopoulos calls himself a "libertarian, gay, Trump-supporting provocateur". So, he's a self-admitted troll.
snore

Given the circumstances, trolling was a hairs-breadth away from incitement to riot, which is not free speech. I think UC blew it allowing him to tour the state. He belongs on Facebook with the other trolls.
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R. Frazier
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Diabolik771 wrote:
rylfrazier wrote:
Drew1365 wrote:
remorseless1 wrote:
Shameful how a few of the demonstrators acted. Hopefully they get arrested. However, cutting off federal funds going to an entire university for the actions of people who may or may not be students, and certainly not condoned by the administration of said university is an overreaction.


Hard to know whether it's condoned by the administration or not. I'd be surprised if at least some of the administrators didn't give their tacit approval.

Technically, it could be considered a conspiracy to interfere with the exercise of the constitutional right to free speech, therefore a federal crime.

Bears investigating, right?


Well yeah other than the fact that there's no proof of that whatsoever that the rioters were even students, let alone "affiliated with the faculty" and BUSD issued a statement strongly condeming the violence immediately. But in the absence of evidence, why not assume your personal prejudices against "big college" are justified.

Maybe it's time your side starts to "clean its house" and go after these guys. It really puts the left in a bad light, worse than the normal whiny SJW stuff.


Are you expecting me to hunt down Black Bloc members with a rifle or something?

Lets make a deal: "clean out" the racists from the tea party and the Trump administration, and I'll get right on "cleaning out" all the violent anarchists from all left wing protests.
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