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Subject: More complete info on Yemen rss

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Mac Mcleod
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http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-commando-idUSKBN...

Quote:
U.S. military officials told Reuters that Trump approved his first covert counterterrorism operation without sufficient intelligence, ground support or adequate backup preparations.

As a result, three officials said, the attacking SEAL team found itself dropping onto a reinforced al Qaeda base defended by landmines, snipers, and a larger than expected contingent of heavily armed Islamist extremists.




More here plus more background.

Obama had previously declined approval for the mission due to insufficient intelligence.

TYT had previous protested Obama's killing of the father and his 16 year old son (both u.s. citizens) with a drone strike.

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Brian S.
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Four years ago, Glenn Greenwald wrote: Chilling legal memo from Obama DOJ justifies assassination of US citizens
Quote:
The most extremist power any political leader can assert is the power to target his own citizens for execution without any charges or due process, far from any battlefield. The Obama administration has not only asserted exactly that power in theory, but has exercised it in practice.

Waaay back in 2010 the NYT wrote: U.S. Approves Targeted Killing of American Cleric

Pretty shitty precedent set by Obama. Who is expecting Trump to exercise restraint? Perhaps more people should have been outraged about extrajudicial killings years ago.
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Andre
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The news I have heard seems to indicate that this raid was planned during the Obama administration, sitting on the shelf and ready to execute, the only thing thwarting it was moonlight, which would make the raid more difficult. The raid was executed under Trump's order, but essentially planned under Obama's watch. That, to some degree, is believable, I do take heart in the miltary, in terms of preparing for and executing such an event with reasonable precision. So I don't buy it that Trump was ill prepared, if the raid was ill prepared, it was done so under Obama's watch.

That said, the raid went down, and the Seal was killed. Sad, but according to news, the raid did offer some intelligence that will reward us in the future, so the loss of life was not in total vain. And, to Trumps's credit, he did have the good sense to honor the body of the fallen.

With regard to the previous post and exrtajudicial killings, Presidents have long had that power, whether legal or illegal, and have attempted to use it (think Kennedy/Castro assasination attempts). I am not sure being a U.S. Citizen has anything to do with it, if they are not onn United States soil, AND known to be supporting or engaging in terrorism. Crying foul at that point, because they are citizens, does not hold much weight in the argument on whether to kill, or not to kill.
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Brian S.
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abadolato01 wrote:
I am not sure being a U.S. Citizen has anything to do with it, if they are not onn United States soil, AND known to be supporting or engaging in terrorism. Crying foul at that point, because they are citizens, does not hold much weight in the argument on whether to kill, or not to kill.
I guess I am mistaken that ALL Americans had basic rights granted to them. Carry on then with extrajudicial killings, nothing to see here.
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Andre
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Vrooman wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I am not sure being a U.S. Citizen has anything to do with it, if they are not onn United States soil, AND known to be supporting or engaging in terrorism. Crying foul at that point, because they are citizens, does not hold much weight in the argument on whether to kill, or not to kill.
I guess I am mistaken that ALL Americans had basic rights granted to them. Carry on then with extrajudicial killings, nothing to see here.


I am not a lawyer, so I cannot speak to their rights when overseas, I personally believe all U.S. citizens should be allowed due process as their right. Innocent until proven guilty.

Note the NY article indicates:
But the director of national intelligence, Dennis C. Blair, told a House hearing in February that such a step was possible. “We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community,” he said. “If we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that.”

I think they had a pretty good case against the cleric, but he was not about to walk into your local police station and turn himself in now, was he?
 
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Claire Anderson
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Wild idea here: we wouldn't have to extrajudicially kill anyone if we stopped our meddling in the middle East that consistently just creates more and more new problems.
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Christopher Yaure
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The principal purpose of ths mission was to obtain intelligence. There may be missions for which the deaths of childen are acceptable collateral damage - I do not see how they can be here.
 
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Mac Mcleod
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abadolato01 wrote:
The news I have heard seems to indicate that this raid was planned during the Obama administration, sitting on the shelf and ready to execute, the only thing thwarting it was moonlight, which would make the raid more difficult. The raid was executed under Trump's order, but essentially planned under Obama's watch. That, to some degree, is believable, I do take heart in the miltary, in terms of preparing for and executing such an event with reasonable precision. So I don't buy it that Trump was ill prepared, if the raid was ill prepared, it was done so under Obama's watch.

That said, the raid went down, and the Seal was killed. Sad, but according to news, the raid did offer some intelligence that will reward us in the future, so the loss of life was not in total vain. And, to Trumps's credit, he did have the good sense to honor the body of the fallen.

With regard to the previous post and exrtajudicial killings, Presidents have long had that power, whether legal or illegal, and have attempted to use it (think Kennedy/Castro assasination attempts). I am not sure being a U.S. Citizen has anything to do with it, if they are not onn United States soil, AND known to be supporting or engaging in terrorism. Crying foul at that point, because they are citizens, does not hold much weight in the argument on whether to kill, or not to kill.


The point is killing a u.s. citizen without a trial violates their civil rights in the view of TYT.

The news is at odds with the facts in this story and in the video.

They say the raid was planned during Mr. Obama's watch but he rejected it because he felt there wasn't sufficient intelligence to approve it.

Mr. Trump picked up the rejected raid and approved it.

And that includes input from military leaks who validate that information.

The news you are referring to sounds like Spicer's press release. Spicer has no credibility.

15 civilian women and children killed in addition to the militant women.
 
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Vincent Perry
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Oh, we care about killing US citizens now? And about Yemen?

I knew there had to be a silver lining to Trump's presidency
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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If this is true, I really wish I could hear what the SEAL who flew that Trump flag on his convoy vehicle says about it. Trump sending one of his brotherhood to die, and putting the whole inserted group at risk. Still going to fly that flag high?

Cowboys should not be Commander-In-Chief. Oh sure, culturally, military members will romanticize them, but only until they start getting killed for no good reason.

I'd really hate if this turned out to be OJT for Trump, no one deserves to die to teach a grown man proper judgment.
 
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Vincent Perry
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abadolato01 wrote:
Vrooman wrote:
abadolato01 wrote:
I am not sure being a U.S. Citizen has anything to do with it, if they are not onn United States soil, AND known to be supporting or engaging in terrorism. Crying foul at that point, because they are citizens, does not hold much weight in the argument on whether to kill, or not to kill.
I guess I am mistaken that ALL Americans had basic rights granted to them. Carry on then with extrajudicial killings, nothing to see here.


I am not a lawyer, so I cannot speak to their rights when overseas, I personally believe all U.S. citizens should be allowed due process as their right. Innocent until proven guilty.

Note the NY article indicates:
But the director of national intelligence, Dennis C. Blair, told a House hearing in February that such a step was possible. “We take direct actions against terrorists in the intelligence community,” he said. “If we think that direct action will involve killing an American, we get specific permission to do that.”

I think they had a pretty good case against the cleric, but he was not about to walk into your local police station and turn himself in now, was he?


Oh, well as long as someone says it's OK to kill an American then I guess it's fine.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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theodorelogan wrote:
Oh, we care about killing US citizens now? And about Yemen?

I knew there had to be a silver lining to Trump's presidency
There was a lot of condmenation of the drone strike that killed the father and son under Obama, at least in RSP. Regrettably there were some that defended it, but it's not like it went uncommented on.
 
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TheChin! wrote:
theodorelogan wrote:
Oh, we care about killing US citizens now? And about Yemen?

I knew there had to be a silver lining to Trump's presidency
There was a lot of condmenation of the drone strike that killed the father and son under Obama, at least in RSP. Regrettably there were some that defended it, but it's not like it went uncommented on.


I don't recall what the tenor of conversation was in RSP (I pop in and out of here over the years) but the national conversation was barely there. That, I do remember.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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theodorelogan wrote:
I don't recall what the tenor of conversation was in RSP (I pop in and out of here over the years) but the national conversation was barely there. That, I do remember.
I agree, I think Obama's drone strike program definitely was given a pass by way too many people.
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Mac Mcleod
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theodorelogan wrote:
Oh, we care about killing US citizens now? And about Yemen?

I knew there had to be a silver lining to Trump's presidency


As i already said multiple times, yes. TYT also cared while mr obama was president and objected to intentionally killing u.s. citizens without a trial then also.
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