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Triumph & Tragedy» Forums » Rules

Subject: All three armies in Berlin rss

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Aaron Bedard
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(I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere)

We played an interesting one last night. Ran into a couple of questions that I couldn't easily find the answer to in the rules.

Germany started with the sneaky strategy of not dong much at all militarily and early on it became clear that they were hoarding Industry and racing to build the A-Bomb.

This forced the Allies and USSR to form an alliance and hit The Germans from both sides.

The Allies saw quicker results, toppling The Ruhr.


1. With the Allies taking The Ruhr while Berlin is still controlled by the Germans, do the Allies gain the Pop/Res for The Ruhr?

The USSR moved into Berlin next for the big fight, which they were going to need help from The Allies to win.

2. Once The Allies do move into Berlin to join the battle, is that instantly considered a declaration of war against the USSR?

3. We assumed that with both our armies now sharing Berlin, Control and it's Pop/Res belonged to no one until there was only one side left in there.

But I wanted to make sure.






 
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Hannes Sörensson
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1. Yes, as with all occupied territory.

2. Not exactly. You have to declare war before entering. When you do, a battle is fought where both enemy sides' (Axis and Soviet) blocks defend against you.

3. Do you mean that the Axis blocks had all been wiped out? Otherwise, the area would still be Axis controlled. If yes, the area is controlled by whoever has been there the longest, which would be the Soviets in your case.
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Aaron Bedard
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Hattes wrote:
1. Yes, as with all occupied territory.

2. Not exactly. You have to declare war before entering. When you do, a battle is fought where both enemy sides' (Axis and Soviet) blocks defend against you.

3. Do you mean that the Axis blocks had all been wiped out? Otherwise, the area would still be Axis controlled. If yes, the area is controlled by whoever has been there the longest, which would be the Soviets in your case.


Crazy, so we played all three wrong.

Let me make sure I have it now:

1. Pop/Res of The Ruhr would go immediately to The Allies once they take control of the space.

2. The Allies did need to declare war on the USSR before joinging the fight in Berlin, even though they they really were there to help fight the Axis (whom they were already at war with.)

3. Yes, The USSR were the first to Attack into Berlin. So upon defeat of the Axis ground forces, Control and the Pop/Res of the space would go to them.

Thank you very much for clarifying this.

 
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Pauli Vinni
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First the allies and sovitettu fight with each others, and after that the winner will fight germans...
 
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Craig Besinque
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Hattes wrote:
1. Yes, as with all occupied territory.

2. Not exactly. You have to declare war before entering. When you do, a battle is fought where both enemy sides' (Axis and Soviet) blocks defend against you.

3. Do you mean that the Axis blocks had all been wiped out? Otherwise, the area would still be Axis controlled. If yes, the area is controlled by whoever has been there the longest, which would be the Soviets in your case.


Excellent answers, Hattes. Correct and clear.
Thanks for jumping in, I'm on vacation right now.
Craig
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Aaron,

In the lower-right corner on page 15, there's a box that reads as follows:

Quote:
Targeting in 3-Way Battles
When all three Factions have units in the same area, at the start of Battle Resolution all Factions must specify which Enemy Faction(s) will not be targeted. All units of a Targeted Faction can participate in the Combat Phase.


In your situation, before the West can move into Berlin to "help" the Soviets, the West must declare war against the Soviets. Then, after moving units into Berlin, a three-way battle begins. There are 32 combinations possible, including those where one or both the other factions choose to not to target any other factions.

Because the West declared war against the Soviets, according to 15.21, "Aggression against the victim must occur." But moving into Berlin is aggression against the owner, which in this case is the Axis (see 11.54 and the box on page 13, Attackers vs Aggressors). To fulfill 15.21, the West must also move into an area owned by the Soviets, occupied or not.

Dieter
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Aaron Bedard
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Thank you for that, Dieter. Clarifies the situation perfectly and makes sense.

It's funny, because I should have remembered the 15.21 rule for the times i've had to explain to new players that you can't simply declare war on a country (generally, to get them to have to start using their RES value) without actually crossing a border and engaging in atleast a round of combat.
 
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