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Can't Stop Express» Forums » Rules

Subject: A fifth die? rss

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Ben Tinney
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BROKEN HILL
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Is there any info anywhere about what this 5th die adds to the game?
 
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Eric S.
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Penguinised wrote:
Is there any info anywhere about what this 5th die adds to the game?


"After each throw of the five dice, you try to choose the best combination of two pairs while also making a good choice for the fifth die. Through this effort, you are awarded points, and whoever has the most points at the end of the game — which usually takes 24-25 rolls — wins".

That's all they wrote.
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Ralph H. Anderson
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Although similar to Can't Stop, Can't Stop Express requires no board and all players use the same roll of the five dice each turn. Four of the dice are used in pairs to create numbers from 2 to 12 (as in Can't Stop). The fifth die adds a "clock" to each person's game and also a constrain on their choices, which adds strategy to the game.

Players keep track of their choices for everything on a score pad.

Once the rules are officially posted it will make more sense. For now, here is an extract form the rules on the use of the fifth die.

From the rules:

Use of the fifth die:

"In each of the first three turns, each player must select a unique 5th die to add to their chart in the three left boxes and must also mark the use of that die number by filling in the first check box. Once players have completed the first three turns they will have three unique 5th die numbers in the three left boxes of their chart. Going forward, each player must use one of these three numbers for each throw if one of those numbers is available. They must also mark it off on their chart. If more than one of the numbers is available, players may choose which one of the three to use and mark off on their chart.

Sometimes it will occur that a throw will not contain one of the three numbers chosen by a player. In this instance the player has a “free throw” where the “5th die” cannot and need not be chosen. The player must still choose two pairs from the 5 available dice and mark them on their score pad. However in this instance the player may ignore the unused “5th die”. Note that no “free throw” is available until the fourth turn after all players have chosen their 3 unique “5th die” values."

End of the Game

"The game may not finish for all players at the same time. Once a player has filled in the eighth box for one of his values of the “5th die”, then the game is over for him. The other players only finish when they have also crossed the “5th die” for the eighth time for one of their three “5th box” numbers. Once the last player is out, the game is over."

Note in Examples

"If, in the first three rounds, the roll of the dice does not allow a player to choose a NEW unique "5th die" number [because all the dice match their current "5th die" number(s)], then they must still take a number as their "5th die" marking off another box for that number. They also must still choose a NEW 5th die number on a subsequent roll until they have all three unique "5th die" numbers chosen."

It is really a fun and challenging game that has a lot of the feel of Can't Stop in a very different format.
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Ben Tinney
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BROKEN HILL
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Wow Ralph, thanks for info. This looks really interesting. I hadn't considered Can't Stop as fitting with this roll and write trend we're seeing lately but obviously it's a perfect fit.
Depending upon international shipping I'll definitely be checking out the Kickstarter when it launches
 
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cory swafford
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Sounds very similar to "solitaire dice" from Sid Sackson's Gamut of Games?
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Ori Avtalion
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mercurycs wrote:
Sounds very similar to "solitaire dice" from Sid Sackson's Gamut of Games?

Suspiciously so! Is this just another version of Extra!, and doesn't deserve its own entry?
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Ori Avtalion
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Unlike Solitaire Dice, this rule seems to indicate you must decide your 3 rejects on the first turn:
DragonCat wrote:
In each of the first three turns, each player must select a unique 5th die to add to their chart in the three left boxes and must also mark the use of that die number by filling in the first check box.


In the original rules, you can keep choosing the same reject, and deciding on the other two later.
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Ralph H. Anderson
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Although covered in another thread, Sid Sackson is attributed as the designer for Can't Stop Express on the box and in the rules. FRED Distribution, Inc (doing business as Eagle-Gryphon Games) has the rights to the game from the Sid Sackson estate and pays royalties to them.

This game was published in Germany many years ago as Einstein and Choice. EGG listed this as "re implements" those games and has alerted the BGG Admins previously so they can determine how to list this game correctly on BGG. As far as I know, that is still in their work queue.

I am no longer a full time employee of EGG (by choice) and still consult for them regularly, including refreshing and clarifying the rules for Can't Stop Express. We have covered some edge cases and provided some variants for new and/or younger players in terms of the scoring as it is quite challenging to get a positive score! This game is an excellent solitaire game for this same reason.

On a personal note, I have introduced Can't Stop Express to several people in my gaming circle and they were pleasantly surprised to find it is a fun and challenging variant of Can't Stop (which EGG also licenses and pays royalties for to the Sid Sackson estate).

Best regards,
Ralph
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Ori Avtalion
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IMO the entries should be merged. The games listed under Extra's entry already have small tweaks to how many boxes the player sheets have, and the changes here don't warrant a brand new entry.

Thanks for the info, Ralph!

P.S. You're mentioning the designer attribution and royalties several times, but I don't think anyone here is calling that into question. I was intrigued since there was almost no information released about this game. Describing it up front as "Solitaire Dice" or one of the names it was previously published under would have saved a lot of trouble
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Bruno Bergeron
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DragonCat wrote:
Going forward, each player must use one of these three numbers for each throw if one of those numbers is available.


Just to be sure, let'S say my 3 'fifth die'' numbers are 1-2-3, If one of these numbers is rolled, I have to use it as the fifth die? Or do I do my pairs first, and if the fifth die is one of these numbers I write it off?

Thanks!
 
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Ralph H. Anderson
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You must use one of the numbers for your fifth die if one is rolled. So if your numbers are 1, 2, 3 and 1, 2, 3, 6, 6 are rolled, you would have to use either the 1, the 2 or the 3 (your choice) as your fifth die and then make your two pair of dice totals with the remaining dice.

If you rolled 4, 5, 5, 6, 6, then you have a "free" roll, as none of these numbers are in your set of fifth die numbers. So you can make 2 pairs of your choice from all 5 dice and ignore the other one. This also means that you don't have to check a fifth die box this round.
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Richard Irving
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SaltyHorse wrote:
IMO the entries should be merged. The games listed under Extra's entry already have small tweaks to how many boxes the player sheets have, and the changes here don't warrant a brand new entry.

Thanks for the info, Ralph!

P.S. You're mentioning the designer attribution and royalties several times, but I don't think anyone here is calling that into question. I was intrigued since there was almost no information released about this game. Describing it up front as "Solitaire Dice" or one of the names it was previously published under would have saved a lot of trouble


Can't Stop Express is slightly different from Extra--the outer columns have fewer -200 pt. check boxes (2,3,11,12 have 3 & 5,6,9,10 have 4) threshold spaces and the rejects have 7, 8, 9 times to be checked off in Extra. In CS Express: each column has 4 threshold spaces and each reject 8 check offs.
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Ori Avtalion
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rri1 wrote:
Can't Stop Express is slightly different from Extra--the outer columns have fewer -200 pt. (2,3,11,12 have 3 & 5,6,9,10 have 4)threshold spaces and the rejects have 6, 7 , 8 times to be checked off in Extra. In CS Express: each column has 4 threshold spaces and 8each reject 8 check offs.

Yes, Can't Stop express is closer to the Gamut of Games rules than Extra in terms of how the scoresheet looks. The only rule difference from Gamut of Games is you're forced to set the 3 reject numbers on your first 3 turns, if possible.

If you're arguing (and I don't think you do...?) that these differences from Extra mean it deserves a separate entry, the entry for "Extra" also contains the Einstein/Choice editions which I believe are closer to the original rules, and it also has images from online implementations that match the original rules.
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Ender Wiggins
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It sounds like someone needs to do a comprehensive comparison between the rules of all these related games/versions/editions:
● Solitaire Dice (Gamut of Games)
● Einstein/Choice
● Extra!
● Can't Stop Express

So far the following differences between Can't Stop Express and Extra! have been noted:
a) Can't Stop Express requires you to set the 3 reject numbers on your first 3 turns, if possible (cf SaltyHorse above)
b) Can't Stop Express uses a different score sheet than Extra! (cf Richard Irving above)

My questions:

1. Are any of the other versions mentioned above identical to Can't Stop Express on these two points?

2. Are there any other differences that should be mentioned?

3. Are the Einstein rules identical to the Choice rules?
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Ori Avtalion
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EndersGame wrote:

My questions:

1. Are any of the other versions mentioned above identical to Can't Stop Express on these two points?

2. Are there any other differences that should be mentioned?

3. Are the Einstein rules identical to the Choice rules?


The rules for Can't Stop Express are available here.

1) I don't think so. The "3 rejects on first 3 turns" seems to be a new rule for this edition.

2) I don't think so.

3) I don't know about the rules, but looking at an image of Einstein's sheet, it's identical to CSE and the original Solitaire Dice rules (in other words, Extra! is the only edition that tweaked the tracks to approximate the 2d6 probability curve, and varied the lengths of the reject columns).

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Ender Wiggins
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Thanks SaltyHorse. I think that at this point I'm taking this thread in a direction well beyond the original question about the fifth die.

So I've started a new thread to discuss how the rules of Can't Stop Express are different from previous editions. I welcome your further contributions/comments there:

How is Can't Stop Express different from Solitaire Dice and Extra!
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