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Warhammer Quest: Silver Tower» Forums » Variants

Subject: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary (and more to come) rss

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Allan Jørgensen
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UPDATED 2/9-17
Here is the final non official version of the Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary.
It has been tested and tweaked and is now ready for everyone to enjoy.
The idea is mine with lots of inspiration from GW's Enlightened and Sky Fires exotic adversaries.
The very professionel looking art has been made by Leigh Hathaway (hath22).
Please comment or get involved as I will soon start working on the Changeling and more testers means faster and better results.




I think it is a shame that the Tzaangor Shaman is a hero so here is the first draft to a Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary.
I wanted him to be sort of a mini boss and to my experience boss adversaries in WHQ:ST need a few bodyguards if they are suppossed to be any kind of threat. Will start testing him next week.

What is your initial thoughts?

If anyone care to join the project I could use more testers and maybe someone who can do a little photoshop magic so the profile sheet might look a bit more 'official' though it is not.

Could also use som help with misspellings. After all english is my second language..

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Leigh Hathaway
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Great thinking Allan!

Yeah, i'd never run a Tzaangor as a 'hero', but would love to draw him as a foe.

I can help out with the Photoshop work too.

Thanks,

Leigh
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Allan Jørgensen
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
hath22 wrote:
Great thinking Allan!

Yeah, i'd never run a Tzaangor as a 'hero', but would love to draw him as a foe.

I can help out with the Photoshop work too.

Thanks,

Leigh


That will de very nice if you did the adversary sheet then. However better for you to wait with that part until testing is done. Welcome on board????
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Leigh Hathaway
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
No worries Allen, i've subscribed to this thread an will jump onto the design once things feel like they are settled upon.

Also my next game is on Tuesday night, I'll try some playtesting and report back.
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Allan Jørgensen
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Had a bunch of fourteen year old kids test him today.
2 normal tries and 1 were I had the adversary role (see my older post for that).

The guys picked the necromancer, the Lord celestant, skaven Warlord and the tenebral Shard.

No doubt the greatest challenge was with me as the adversary player.
Anyway So far I will change the following:
Place 1 Tzaangor per player + the shaman.
Shaman should have 12 vigour.
That was the end test and it was a lot more challenging though the hero won.
 
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Allan Jørgensen
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
tzaangor shaman v. 1.2


Changes made after testing

+ 2 vigour

This Exotic Adversary group consists of 1 Tzaangor per player and 1 Tzaangor Shaman.


1. Sorcerous Elixir: The Tzaangor Shaman moves as far as it can away from all heroes while keeping line of sight to a hero. Then the Tzaangor Shaman attacks the nearest hero twice with its Boon of Mutation or Staff of Change.

2-5. Swoop Blast: The Tzaangor Shaman moves in as straight a line as possible over the nearest hero, to move as far as it can. Then, if he can see any heroes, the Tzaangor Shaman attacks the nearest hero with its Boon of Mutation or Staff of Change
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Leigh Hathaway
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Played a couple of battles against the Shaman and his friends last night.

Firstly with the Slaughterpriest & the Lord of Plagues. Then the Cogsmith & the Knight Questor.

Both fights were really close, i didn't use any destiny dice due to the variability that would bring. I figure that it evens out as the bonus those dice would bring would be negated by the doubles.

In the first fight my Slaughterpriest was grievously wounded but the Lord of Plagues stuck in there to finish the fight. The second team had a little less trouble but mainly due to the Cogsmiths ability to take him out at distance.

The only thing that I found a bit confusing was his movement with Swoop Blast. Am I right in thinking the intention is for him to hit the hero with his disc and then keep moving as far away as possible for another cheeky shot? If so in instances where his maximum movement would take him out of the room and down the corridor should he stop at the edge of the room or does he just keep going?

Overall I though he was a fantastic addition to the Silver Tower adversaries and the recent changes that you made were good.
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Allan Jørgensen
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Great work. The intention for the swoop blast is for him to do exactly that. Attack with the disc while moving as far as he can away from the heroes.
We want him to strike down and flee. Making him an annoying target.
Maybe the wordings should be changed? Feel free to do so if you come up with a solution. The swoop attack is made as a mix between the Sky fires and the enlighteneds swoop attack behaviour table result.

I will run a couple of tests today using only the standard heroes (those from the ST box). If the result is satisfying I think we should wrap it up.
Agree?
 
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Allan Jørgensen
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Tests done.

Test 1: 2 heroes(Lord castellant and Skaven Lord) vs shaman
Test 2: same but in Adversary player mode.
Test 3: 4 base heroes (Dark oath chieftain, mistweaver Shaih, dwarf Rune dude, Knight questor)
Test 4: same but in Adversary player mode.

Result 3-1 victory for the heroes.
Once again the adversary player games were the biggest challenge. The fact that the hero players don't get to place adversaries is a huge upgrade in difficulty.

The shaman is far from unbeateable. However, the shaman or his companions often get to grieviously wound a hero or two before combat ends. That should be enough for the heroes to fear him as a foe. We had great fun and the players had to rethink strategies and even fall back a bit to beat the shaman and his retinue.
From my point of view he is done and I will await the Photoshop magic????
If you feel like staying onboard I will soon start working on the Changeling as he might become yet another mini boss designed to crank up the difficulty a tad or two..
 
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Leigh Hathaway
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Great work Allan! Yep that's the kind of adversary you want, one that you're not 100% confident you will beat.

Cool, i'll take a look at the designs today. I'll post 2 versions, one that i'm using which takes up a smaller footprint and another that tries to match the Exotic Adversary pages in the Adventure Book.

Yeah i'll happily help out with the Changeling.
 
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Leigh Hathaway
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
Below you'll see the two design options for downloading the Tzaangor Shaman adversary information:

Tzaangor Shaman - Adventure Book page style
https://goo.gl/afHl0Q


Tzaangor Shaman - Medium Postcard size
https://goo.gl/oFLIf3


If anyone spots any errors please let me know and i'll get them updated asap.
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aris da
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Re: Tzaangor Shaman exotic adversary
nicely done leigh!!!!
 
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Jeff White
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hath22 wrote:
Below you'll see the two design options for downloading the Tzaangor Shaman adversary information:

Tzaangor Shaman - Adventure Book page style
https://goo.gl/afHl0Q


Tzaangor Shaman - Medium Postcard size
https://goo.gl/oFLIf3


If anyone spots any errors please let me know and i'll get them updated asap.


Are there templates for adversary cards? I found one for heroes, but have a few adversaries I'd like to doctor up.
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Allan Jørgensen
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Here is my first draft for the Changeling Exotic Adversary.
Needless to say I had to freestyle a bit on this one and I reckon we will see some tweeking before he is done.

I made his weapons and skills based on a mix between the Herald, the Changeling AOS profile and his AOS lore.
I wanted him to be a tough annoying adversary. One that keeps slipping through your fingers just to come back and strike you with your own powers.

What is your initial thought before I begin testing him hopefully monday?

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David Russell
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Nice work - thank you

Sometimes I do wonder about games workshop decisions making. Here we are with a box full of Tzaangor enemies who could really do with a leader to tie them in nicely and they go and release rules for the Shaman as a hero. I mean surely someone there would have the heart to say - no I think everyone will more likely want enemy rules for this one ?

I am thankful they want to support the game but I just find their thought processes very odd.
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andy williams
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Great stuff you need to do a Lord of change one and a chaos spawn-
done an excellent job with these
 
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Allan Jørgensen
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andyafricanus wrote:
Great stuff you need to do a Lord of change one and a chaos spawn-
done an excellent job with these


Well to be honest I have plans to do the following Exotic Adversaries in this order:
1. Tzaangor Shaman
2. The Changeling
3. Blue Scribes.
4. Lord of Change

Haven't thought about adding a Chaos Spawn but depending on how this goes it could be done if we have enough support. What I am trying to say is that testing and designing is fun to do but it takes time. Everytime I test some custom stuff I seek to find a new group of testers to get as many variations as possible. The fact that Leigh was able to test the Shaman too really helped shaping the Shaman fast. In other words we could use your and others help. We need:

- Testers: people who take the time, even just once to test the exotic adversary and give me a little feedback.
- Native english speakers: people who master spelling and speaking english (clearly not me). Your job is to make sure the final product is easy to understand and use the same wordings as GW has used for ST.
- Photoshop designers (only if Leigh needs the extra support or is unable to continue working on this).
- Commenters: people just giving their thoughts about my ideas. Do they make sense? Are they too unbalanced, simple, complicated or whatever.

I got a ton of yet to be revealed ideas but it all depends on how this goes down.
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Leigh Hathaway
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Hey Allen,

I'm cool with doing the Photoshop work for all the future characters.

Although I might not get much time to playtest over the coming weeks.
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James Butler
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Nice job! ^_^ had hoped the WD would feature all those on your list...
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andy williams
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Greasygeek wrote:
andyafricanus wrote:
Great stuff you need to do a Lord of change one and a chaos spawn-
done an excellent job with these


Well to be honest I have plans to do the following Exotic Adversaries in this order:
1. Tzaangor Shaman
2. The Changeling
3. Blue Scribes.
4. Lord of Change

Haven't thought about adding a Chaos Spawn but depending on how this goes it could be done if we have enough support. What I am trying to say is that testing and designing is fun to do but it takes time. Everytime I test some custom stuff I seek to find a new group of testers to get as many variations as possible. The fact that Leigh was able to test the Shaman too really helped shaping the Shaman fast. In other words we could use your and others help. We need:

- Testers: people who take the time, even just once to test the exotic adversary and give me a little feedback.
- Native english speakers: people who master spelling and speaking english (clearly not me). Your job is to make sure the final product is easy to understand and use the same wordings as GW has used for ST.
- Photoshop designers (only if Leigh needs the extra support or is unable to continue working on this).
- Commenters: people just giving their thoughts about my ideas. Do they make sense? Are they too unbalanced, simple, complicated or whatever.

I got a ton of yet to be revealed ideas but it all depends on how this goes down.


Happy to playtest, I have a lord of change but he is an older version - my youngest is quite excited by it all.
 
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andy williams
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Can work out a figure to do the changeling I guess, him and the blue scribes are not something I'm across, my Tzeentch stuff is all 90's -2000's
 
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Allan Jørgensen
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andyafricanus wrote:
Can work out a figure to do the changeling I guess, him and the blue scribes are not something I'm across, my Tzeentch stuff is all 90's -2000's


Cool Andy!
your help is very appreciated.

Unfortunately I hasn't been able to test the Changeling untill now but I might get a shot at it on friday. You can test them the way you feel like but what I do is bring a group between 2-4 set up a large room and one chamber before that. And let the game run its course. First turn means runemarked player is one action die down due to exploring the room.
So you do not have to run an entire game just finish the fight and evaluate on these points:
1. Was it challenging and fun?
2. Did it simulate a boss fight?
3. Did the players understand the rules/were they fiddly?
4. Does anything need tweeking?

After that write your thoughts in here in a few lines.
A test do not have to take more than 10-20minuttes.

Even if you do not have the Changeling use whatever works and go get the truelly cool model if you like once we are satisfied with the result and Leigh has done his photoshop magic.

On the subject of future adversaries:
I will take a short break once we are done with the Changeling due to Hammerhal being released soon. I will cobtinue the work very soon but I need to know the impact of the current difficulty vs Hammerhal difficulty. Hope you understand.

It only took us one productive week. Imagine how many Adversaries we could do in a month if we have enough testers.
Hammerhal will need lots of enemies for all the missions we might create..



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andy williams
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cool got the changing stats from this forum. will give it a try this weekend and the shaman..
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