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davide pessach
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Well, I'm on the fence for the preorder, I'm very very tempted but I have one main issue with the overall design, and that is the "salad point" factor, aka the bizillion ways you score victory points.

I love the evacuation mechanic and I love the fact that it can scale up with the second requirement. I don't love the other many many ways in which you score points as I fear it detract focus from the experience and make it very complicated to compete and have an idea on who is winning. I mean, players can get distracted by so many point occasions that this can end up in a schizophrenic effort with no focus at all. As I can make points in so many ways why prepare a focused plan? Why not just go around and shoot for a bit of everything?

Scythe is a game that risks this too but it manages to keep things focused on the star thing (which can render the other efforts of other players useless if someone achieve a super fast victory). Other than that it has the very clever multiplicator mechanism of the popularity and the combat focus that round things up.

But here I fear it is too much. Anyone care to elaborate on why I'm wrong/right?

Thanks guys!

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Montgomery Box
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I've only played 1 game so far, so take this with a big grain of salt.

But it doesn't seem like you need to really focus on anything but your evacuation mechanic. The other points come very organically, from buildings, from paying back your loans, etc. Perhaps it's just my play style, but I didn't feel that I had to focus too much on which was the better point results.
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Emanuela
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I like that there are different ways to score points, personally, because it seems wrong to me to limit whether someone wins or not just by how many points they get doing just one thing. You could argue that the Path with the happiest people (morale), or the most research, or the most buildings, etc. should win the whole game, but I like that it's a mix of everything because being good in a few aspects feels better balanced than just having the most water, for example. Why should this (or any other) one thing really decide the game? I like that it encourages balanced play, rather than having everyone pile their Exosuits on the water purifiers/Three Pillars, and it gives everyone a fair shot at using everything that the boards have to offer. The Evac and starting Victory conditions are guides toward a well-rounded but still-focused game of trying a bit of everything, I feel. I'm usually not happy with Point Salad games (I can appreciate the genius behind TM and Tzolk'in and Trajan, but they're not REALLY my thing...), and I tend to go for stuff like MP for WP, which there is a lot of here with each Worker type being better geared toward certain Actions. The theme and gameplay in Anachrony also hit on everything that I love in a board game--the sci-fi, post-apocalyptic world; the Exosuits; the twist on worker placement and that Workers can be Tired after completing an Action (that's genius!); time travel; the artwork; etc.--so I'm willing to look past the somewhat Point Salad-y aspect for everything else that I love existing in this game.

Regarding having difficulty telling who's winning, that's also not my thing; I play just to play, for the most part. And as Montgomery said, it does feel like all the points come organically. My husband and I have played it a few times on Tabletopia and have always focused on our Evac conditions, with everything else being secondary and just sort of happening along the way.

Lastly, I hesitate to compare Scythe to Anachrony or any other board game coming along in the future, as it will limit my openness to trying/purchasing any other great games. Yes, Scythe is fantastic, but it's not really the same kind of game as Anachrony, so it feels wrong to use Scythe as an equal comparison for many/all future games coming out. You mention the star system and combat, but Anachrony has no combat, and the star thing as a game-end trigger is REALLY awkward/clunky to me. For example, I'm going along, playing the game with my neat and safe groups of mechs and workers and working toward my stars, when I see the last star is so close to being laid down by another player, so now I'm on what is most likely my last turn and suddenly have to spread myself out as thinly as I can to claim as much land as possible for final scoring. What the heck? In regular gameplay, this is a terrible idea because it leaves you vulnerable to attack, but for end-game scoring, I'm encouraged to embrace this terrible idea just to get more points? shake There is much frustration on my part with this aspect of Scythe, but that's something for another thread/day.
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davide pessach
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I was also thinking about the mechanic of time travel. To me it seems forced as one can save himself the fuss of dealing with anomalies by simply not asking for those resources. They are not much of a lure...and, in fact, they put points there too...to make also there a source of vp...so now it should be interesting. Instead, to me, it seems forced.

As for Scythe I know the games are different but talking about many sources of VP, the comparison made sense.
 
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Michael Penny
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The only thing I can say is that after 2 games, I find this game is exceptionally balanced which surprised me given the asymmetry of the B side player boards.

My last game I ended up on 54 points while my 2 opponents were on 58 with the tie breaker coming down to 11 water.

But I'm rambling. Fact of the matter is. If you're in the fence with this game. Don't buy it. Play someone else's copy and see if it's for you or play it on Tabletopia.

I think this game is a superb worker placement game with a real focus on action economy. The group I played it with are seasoned euro players and they were completely surprised by how simple the game was to play yet how complex the decision making was. It was definitely worth the purchase for me and I kickstarted it from day dot.

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Michael Penny
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patgarret77 wrote:
I was also thinking about the mechanic of time travel. To me it seems forced as one can save himself the fuss of dealing with anomalies by simply not asking for those resources. They are not much of a lure...and, in fact, they put points there too...to make also there a source of vp...so now it should be interesting. Instead, to me, it seems forced.

As for Scythe I know the games are different but talking about many sources of VP, the comparison made sense.


Sorry for the double post. Thought I'd add my 2 cents.

On a 2 player game, I just asked for 1 or no warps as I felt I could usually do what I wanted.

On a 3 or 4 player game especially. I think you absolutely need the warps as resources and actions become more scarce.

But you're right, you don't need to do it at all. You can focus on building other things. It's just great that the game gives you a source of victory points if that's the direction you want to go down.

I think it's a neat mechanic.
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Emanuela
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Building off of what Michael said, totally agreed about not buying the game till you're sure. I'm the same way, usually--this is the one time where I watched Rahdo's playthrough, loved it entirely, and showed it to my husband, who also totally agreed about backing it on KS. Having since also played it on Tabletopia, I'm even more excited about owning it and am 100% certain I made the right decision.

Also as Michael said, it isn't necessary to Warp, and in playing with my husband, I rarely Warped something unless I could pay it back the same turn with a particular Power Plant or Superproject or in the next Era (or two at most). I was a lot more calculated, and I can see more Waring going on with more Players and limited spaces on the Main Board. That said, I do look forward to playing with the time travel aspect a lot more and seeing if I can significantly boost my score by using it.
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davide pessach
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Yes guys I'm definitely holding my horses right now, and I'm trying to gather thoughts on the gameplay as this went on my book from "woah incredible" to "maybe it's a hype train or the gameplay is only good on paper".

I used Scythe as comparison because I wanted to both talk about salad points games and I wanted to pitch this game against something that is super tight game design wise. The constant tension, the different mechanics, the objectives and the race or points is perfectly engineered in Scythe, and that creates a magic that makes every game super enjoyable.

Anachrony has an added mechanic, and that is competition for limited resources. This is bound to create an even tenser and enjoyable experience but I still feel it doesn't and I suspect the problem is in costs and rewards not being designed tight enough. The warp mechanic is one of them...a huge fuss for a mere cube or one worker.

Anyway, these are only impressions and maybe I'm being too harsh and requesting from Anachrony to be an instant classic right off the bat (like Sythe was). But still, you can't buy all the good games eh... :-)
 
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I'm not sure you can use power plants to pay back something you just warped in.

Or maybe you can but don't advance your time travel market.

Rules clarification gurus?

Thanks!
 
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David Turczi
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electricalstorm wrote:
I'm not sure you can use power plants to pay back something you just warped in.

Or maybe you can but don't advance your time travel market.

Rules clarification gurus?

Thanks!


That's what we have the Rules forum for

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1705319/power-plant-111s-im...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1722096/setting-players-foc...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1719756/retrieving-warp-til...
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1716991/power-plant-114

there has been quite a discussion on the various ways of dealing with warps
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Adrian Schmidt
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patgarret77 wrote:
Yes guys I'm definitely holding my horses right now, and I'm trying to gather thoughts on the gameplay as this went on my book from "woah incredible" to "maybe it's a hype train or the gameplay is only good on paper".

I used Scythe as comparison because I wanted to both talk about salad points games and I wanted to pitch this game against something that is super tight game design wise. The constant tension, the different mechanics, the objectives and the race or points is perfectly engineered in Scythe, and that creates a magic that makes every game super enjoyable.

Anachrony has an added mechanic, and that is competition for limited resources. This is bound to create an even tenser and enjoyable experience but I still feel it doesn't and I suspect the problem is in costs and rewards not being designed tight enough. The warp mechanic is one of them...a huge fuss for a mere cube or one worker.

Anyway, these are only impressions and maybe I'm being too harsh and requesting from Anachrony to be an instant classic right off the bat (like Sythe was). But still, you can't buy all the good games eh... :-)


It seems like you believe all games you don't like are "badly designed"?

Anachrony might not be for you (from your comments it seems it is not for you), but that doesn't mean it is a "hype train" and that "the gameplay is only good on paper".

Scythe and Anachrony are completely different games. The most they have in common is that they both come in large and heavy boxes. As long as you expect Anachrony to be anything like Scythe at all, you are just going to be disappointed.

Anachrony has more in common with Trickerion, Dungeon Petz, or even Agricola, than with Scythe.
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davide pessach
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Again, I specified why I used Scythe as comparison. Please take the time to actually read the post you respond to.

Anachrony might be for me as I like the mechanics used and, as a matter of fact, some mechanics are shared with Scythe. Even if they are different games.

Also, the fact that I'm stating my doubts about Anachrony proves that I don't like it? And that I think these games are badly designed?
I'm stating doubts and explaining them, and asking people for opinions on them.

I'm being fair with Anachrony and I'm still thinking I might buy it. So, sir, please don't attack implying something that I did not said, nor implied.

Thank you
 
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Adrian Schmidt
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patgarret77 wrote:
Again, I specified why I used Scythe as comparison. Please take the time to actually read the post you respond to.

Anachrony might be for me as I like the mechanics used and, as a matter of fact, some mechanics are shared with Scythe. Even if they are different games.

Also, the fact that I'm stating my doubts about Anachrony proves that I don't like it? And that I think these games are badly designed?
I'm stating doubts and explaining them, and asking people for opinions on them.

I'm being fair with Anachrony and I'm still thinking I might buy it. So, sir, please don't attack implying something that I did not said, nor implied.

Thank you



I have read all your comments, so I'm sorry if it seemed I hadn't.

I also didn't mean my comment as an attack, but yes, I was a little annoyed with your choice of words in the post I replied to, and I let that shine through. I'm sorry for that.

If you decide to get Anachrony in the end, I hope you will enjoy it
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Matt Simpson
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What worker placement games have you played? Your profile didn't have any rated, but scythe also wasn't in there. Anachrony stands out from many worker placement games (aside from Trickerion, Argent, Dungeon Petz) because it has a very strong theme. Most WPs are mechanics and a little bit of theme. So, while the theme might appeal to you, knowing your WP playing history might help in offering advice if it's a game for you.

Scythe has to be ultra balanced as an action selection/area control game
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davide pessach
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I'm originally a wargamer and I have only recently got into euro games. Still I know games as they have been part of my trade since long.

Having said that, I've recently played games like Terraforming Mars, 51State, Scythe, Robinson and I have to say all of them had something good going on, something that clicked with me and pushed me to play more. The emergent story in Robinson, the Solo challenge in terraforming ars, the infinite mechanics to make the most of resources (and cards) in 51State. And Scythe for me is the pinnacle as its design is super tight and balanced and nothing seems off nor loose.

Anachrony, as I said, seems to me very good on paper and I was captured immediately by the theme and the mechanics. Then I decided to try it before buying and I was honestly underwhelmed.
The theme had issues, like the building that are generic (a colored card with a place for a worker and a payoff? Really? Is it something right off the first prototype???). The mechanics are nice but the warp one seems more a fuss than an interesting advantage: and the fact that they attached vp points to them seems a patch.
The point salad is another issue: too much dispersion, but this is mitigated by the fact that there is a main objective (the evacuation) and that can also scale up with the secondary condition, so I'm less worried on that.
In the end I didn't feel the rush nor the adrenaline to gather points

In the end I think the solo mode will decide my purchase decision: for some reasons I have to be very picky on what I buy and keep the less than optimal games on Tabletopia and TabSimulator...so yes, I'm being picky and overly critical but only for the sake of provoking a meaningful discussion here as there seems to be only enthusiasts and ks unconditional lovers (cognitively biased by the fact they put money on this). Again, I' not meaning to attack anyone or provoke a flame war, and if I seem to be aggressive just put that to english not being my mother language.

Thankssss
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Phil Triest
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I backed this game because of two things. The theme being one and the joy I got from their previous kickstarter.

I only received my game on Saturday night. I got three copies for myself and two friends in a group buy. I cannot believe how heavy the game is. This company really does things so right. It is heavier than TI3.

As for the OP. Just hold off and miss the minis then kick yourself later. At least this game is different. How many games have we all had to sell off because when the dust settles it is the same as a bunch of other games in our collections.
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davide pessach
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@Phil Thank you for your impressions. I hope you will take the time to write down more thoughts on the game later! I'm really looking for structured and honest review to finally state my mind on this game.
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patgarret77 wrote:
I'm originally a wargamer and I have only recently got into euro games. Still I know games as they have been part of my trade since long.

Having said that, I've recently played games like Terraforming Mars, 51State, Scythe, Robinson and I have to say all of them had something good going on, something that clicked with me and pushed me to play more. The emergent story in Robinson, the Solo challenge in terraforming ars, the infinite mechanics to make the most of resources (and cards) in 51State. And Scythe for me is the pinnacle as its design is super tight and balanced and nothing seems off nor loose.

Anachrony, as I said, seems to me very good on paper and I was captured immediately by the theme and the mechanics. Then I decided to try it before buying and I was honestly underwhelmed.
The theme had issues, like the building that are generic (a colored card with a place for a worker and a payoff? Really? Is it something right off the first prototype???). The mechanics are nice but the warp one seems more a fuss than an interesting advantage: and the fact that they attached vp points to them seems a patch.
The point salad is another issue: too much dispersion, but this is mitigated by the fact that there is a main objective (the evacuation) and that can also scale up with the secondary condition, so I'm less worried on that.
In the end I didn't feel the rush nor the adrenaline to gather points

In the end I think the solo mode will decide my purchase decision: for some reasons I have to be very picky on what I buy and keep the less than optimal games on Tabletopia and TabSimulator...so yes, I'm being picky and overly critical but only for the sake of provoking a meaningful discussion here as there seems to be only enthusiasts and ks unconditional lovers (cognitively biased by the fact they put money on this). Again, I' not meaning to attack anyone or provoke a flame war, and if I seem to be aggressive just put that to english not being my mother language.

Thankssss


All of those games you said are not worker placement games, which is important to understand that they won't be as interactive or as thematic (though I'm in the minority that I think 51st state has no theme lol.) WPs will be a little drier than what you have liked so far. You place out your workers, you get a benefit, repeat. Those of us that like this style of game, this one should be one of the best because it has so much theme along with very good WP mechanics. But it may not be something you'll enjoy.
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Adrian Schmidt
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patgarret77 wrote:
I'm originally a wargamer and I have only recently got into euro games. Still I know games as they have been part of my trade since long.

Having said that, I've recently played games like Terraforming Mars, 51State, Scythe, Robinson and I have to say all of them had something good going on, something that clicked with me and pushed me to play more. The emergent story in Robinson, the Solo challenge in terraforming ars, the infinite mechanics to make the most of resources (and cards) in 51State. And Scythe for me is the pinnacle as its design is super tight and balanced and nothing seems off nor loose.

Anachrony, as I said, seems to me very good on paper and I was captured immediately by the theme and the mechanics. Then I decided to try it before buying and I was honestly underwhelmed.
The theme had issues, like the building that are generic (a colored card with a place for a worker and a payoff? Really? Is it something right off the first prototype???). The mechanics are nice but the warp one seems more a fuss than an interesting advantage: and the fact that they attached vp points to them seems a patch.
The point salad is another issue: too much dispersion, but this is mitigated by the fact that there is a main objective (the evacuation) and that can also scale up with the secondary condition, so I'm less worried on that.
In the end I didn't feel the rush nor the adrenaline to gather points

In the end I think the solo mode will decide my purchase decision: for some reasons I have to be very picky on what I buy and keep the less than optimal games on Tabletopia and TabSimulator...so yes, I'm being picky and overly critical but only for the sake of provoking a meaningful discussion here as there seems to be only enthusiasts and ks unconditional lovers (cognitively biased by the fact they put money on this). Again, I' not meaning to attack anyone or provoke a flame war, and if I seem to be aggressive just put that to english not being my mother language.

Thankssss


It's good that you got to try it out!

You say you want to "provoke" meaningful discussion, but meaningful discussion is seldom "provoked" in my experience. Provocation usually only yields more provocation and negative sentiments. If you feel that you are not getting the replies you would like, that might be the reason.

Also, since the game is only just getting delivered, it's only natural that most people here are enthusiastic and have a positive view of the game. People who are less likely to enjoy it probably decided not to back it in the first place, and they just aren't active in the forums at this point, because they simply don't care about it. Just like I'm not active in the forums for all the games I didn't back on Kickstarter.

When it comes to the "backers just love it because they already sunk money into it and now they have to love it", I'm sure that's a factor in some cases, but it's clearly not in other cases. People are selling their pledges or their unopened games all the time, because they lost interest in the game they backed before they receive it. I really don't understand that mentality, but it's clear evidence that all people do not "love" what they backed just because they sunk money into it at one point. I think the better explanation is simply that those who are (legitimately) enthusiastic about the game hang around the forums, and those who are less enthusiastic are less active. If the game disappoints once more people get it, I'm sure that will be visible in the forums at that time. More different opinions will also be voiced as the game hits retail, as a lot more people who are not already fans of the genre, the designer, or the publisher will be buying it, and thus, it will be much more hit and miss.

I don't think this is unique for Anachrony in any way. I think it's true for all of the bigger games, whether or not they are kickstarted.
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patgarret77 wrote:
I'm originally a wargamer

[…]

The theme had issues, like the building that are generic (a colored card with a place for a worker and a payoff? Really? Is it something right off the first prototype???).


I'm sure the irony here is lost on no one
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In another thread this was said. It's not completely on point but adds to the conversation, especially the final paragraph.


rinmanrunner wrote:

I've played two games of Anachrony so far on Tabletopia. First game I tied at 52 with my opponent and he won on the water tiebreaker. Second game I won 63-46 when I ended the game in era 6 before my opponent was able to take his evacuation action (his mistake). My opponent was set up to score about 20 points from his evac and another 7 from a super project in the last era, so he probably would have won narrowly if we played it out.

Obviously a small sample size, but thus far I think this game is well designed and balanced. The evac condition is a huge source of points, but you can't neglect the end game conditions either. I also like the high risk-high reward aspect of the timeline. You can score lots of points by closing the time loop of your requests, but you also risk picking up costly anomalies along the way.

Even when you don't win you get a sense of satisfaction from seeing how far your path has developed with its buildings, workers, superprojects, and breakthroughs. Seeing a nice clean timeline at the end is satisfying as well when you've picked up 10+ points from all your time travelling adventures.


I backed this game. I don't have it yet. I am not convinced this will be the most awesome game ever but I am excited to play it due to mechanics and theme.

Without having played it I'll say I'm also disappointed they didn't give the buildings more theme. I actually suggested they do this and provided some ideas. They missed a good opportunity imo. For example the sacrifice a worker for water sounds like an end of life altar, something Dunesque...

I would definitely say the mechanisms encourage a mixture of diversifying strategies: the fact that the buildings of each type get more expensive as you build more, the end game scoring conditions etc, but I don't see that as a problem. One of the pinnacle WP euro games Agricola encourages diversification. While I enjoy that game its theme doesn't appeal to me.

What point salad games have you played that you've been disappointed by? It might help to say which they are as they may be similar to this game.

I'd recommend waiting until a few more reviews are out or video play throughs.

Good luck!
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Emanuela
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TopherMel wrote:
Without having played it I'll say I'm also disappointed they didn't give the buildings more theme.


Well, now that you mention it, "Lab 409" is rather plain and utilitarian in name and design. It doesn't even look like a lab...

Actually, something as simple(?) as the Buildings, Superprojects, and maybe Anomalies being etched on clear plastic to allow each Path's artwork on the Player Boards to show through would be great! I dislike that as I'm adding on Buildings, I'm losing more of the artwork that immerses me into the game. On the other hand, I do also see how this is impractical in terms of production and gameplay (since we're not really supposed to see ahead which Buildings or Superprojects are showing up in the next Era, though the Superprojects could probably be hidden under the actual Timeline Tiles till everyone progresses to the next round...?) But wouldn't it be pretty awesome if this could work? If someone can do this well for a fair price, I'll absolutely consider buying it.
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EPratt wrote:
TopherMel wrote:
Without having played it I'll say I'm also disappointed they didn't give the buildings more theme.


Well, now that you mention it, "Lab 409" is rather plain and utilitarian in name and design. It doesn't even look like a lab...

Actually, something as simple(?) as the Buildings, Superprojects, and maybe Anomalies being etched on clear plastic to allow each Path's artwork on the Player Boards to show through would be great! I dislike that as I'm adding on Buildings, I'm losing more of the artwork that immerses me into the game. On the other hand, I do also see how this is impractical in terms of production and gameplay (since we're not really supposed to see ahead which Buildings or Superprojects are showing up in the next Era, though the Superprojects could probably be hidden under the actual Timeline Tiles till everyone progresses to the next round...?) But wouldn't it be pretty awesome if this could work? If someone can do this well for a fair price, I'll absolutely consider buying it.


I've only played the game once on Tabletopia, and it wasn't the final version. I didn't reflect about the lack of theme on the buildings then, but I was focused on trying to learn the rules.

That said, I imagine I would agree that unique art and names for the buildings would have been nice.

But, let's not forget that all these things involve trade-offs. I'm a software developer, and there's a saying in our business: "Features, deadline, cost; choose any two."

What it means is that two of these aspects can be relatively fixed, but at least one has to be flexible. Translated to this case, it means that if you want themed buildings, you need to trade for something else: remove another feature, move the deadline, or increase the price.
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David Turczi
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EPratt wrote:
Actually, something as simple(?) as the Buildings, Superprojects, and maybe Anomalies being etched on clear plastic to allow each Path's artwork on the Player Boards to show through would be great!


We tried. It was either impractical, or expensive, or both, or ugly, or all three
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Phil Triest
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TDaver wrote:
EPratt wrote:
TopherMel wrote:
Without having played it I'll say I'm also disappointed they didn't give the buildings more theme.


Well, now that you mention it, "Lab 409" is rather plain and utilitarian in name and design. It doesn't even look like a lab...

Actually, something as simple(?) as the Buildings, Superprojects, and maybe Anomalies being etched on clear plastic to allow each Path's artwork on the Player Boards to show through would be great! I dislike that as I'm adding on Buildings, I'm losing more of the artwork that immerses me into the game. On the other hand, I do also see how this is impractical in terms of production and gameplay (since we're not really supposed to see ahead which Buildings or Superprojects are showing up in the next Era, though the Superprojects could probably be hidden under the actual Timeline Tiles till everyone progresses to the next round...?) But wouldn't it be pretty awesome if this could work? If someone can do this well for a fair price, I'll absolutely consider buying it.


We tried. It was either impractical, or expensive, or both, or ugly, or all three


TBH this community is getting pretty whiney nowadays. It is such a small part of the game. I sense people who didn't get on the original KS are just trying to bring the game down to make themselves feel better about their lack of action 12 odd months back.
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