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Subject: +1 Hand Size rss

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Joshua Schutte
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Is there any reason this wont always be the first brown upgrade most people take? (I've only played 3 player so maybe movement is more important 2/4 player?) Unless you only get one brown upgrade all game and know you will only get one I could see getting just the points/movement one.
 
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Jon Pessano
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Crikrunner wrote:
Is there any reason this wont always be the first brown upgrade most people take? (I've only played 3 player so maybe movement is more important 2/4 player?) Unless you only get one brown upgrade all game and know you will only get one I could see getting just the points/movement one.


In all the games I have played (a few 2 player and two 3 player) I have always taken the +1 hand size. I believe everyone else has as well.

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Dave Moser
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I agree that increasing hand size is the obvious choice for most plays, but I can imagine specific strategies where the speed boost makes sense, or even the "6 Certificate" spot. Also, bad planning or bad luck could leave you with less than $5 after paying shipping costs, in which case increasing your hand size isn't an option.
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Jon Pessano
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dmoser22 wrote:
I agree that increasing hand size is the obvious choice for most plays, but I can imagine specific strategies where the speed boost makes sense, or even the "6 Certificate" spot. Also, bad planning or bad luck could leave you with less than $5 after paying shipping costs, in which case increasing your hand size isn't an option.


Actually, I think one person couldn't afford to buy it one time and had to take something else in a game.

Thx
jonpfl
 
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Thomas Leitner
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jonpfl wrote:
dmoser22 wrote:
I agree that increasing hand size is the obvious choice for most plays, but I can imagine specific strategies where the speed boost makes sense, or even the "6 Certificate" spot. Also, bad planning or bad luck could leave you with less than $5 after paying shipping costs, in which case increasing your hand size isn't an option.


Actually, I think one person couldn't afford to buy it one time and had to take something else in a game.

Thx
jonpfl


I believe it is impossible not to be able to afford the increased hand size. For example, if you place in the 10 value city (the first available space for a black disc), you will receive 10 money. The highest your transportation costs can be is 5 money.

If you place on the 12 value city, your costs cannot be more than 7 money. And so on.

You should always have at least the 5 money you need to pay for increased hand size.
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I completely disagree!!!

The +1 hand size is not even close to an obvious first choice of "black" upgrade. There's many strategies where you don't buy more than 1-2 cows, in which case the increased hand size isn't very useful. Especially in a 3-player game where you only start with three movement, the movement upgrade can be much more useful. +1 hand size is only an obvious choice if you're focusing on hiring cowboys and buying lots of cows. If I'm not pursuing a cowboy strategy then I'll often never increase my hand size.
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Scott Saccenti
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verandi wrote:

I completely disagree!!!

The +1 hand size is not even close to an obvious first choice of "black" upgrade. There's many strategies where you don't buy more than 1-2 cows, in which case the increased hand size isn't very useful. Especially in a 3-player game where you only start with three movement, the movement upgrade can be much more useful. +1 hand size is only an obvious choice if you're focusing on hiring cowboys and buying lots of cows. If I'm not pursuing a cowboy strategy then I'll often never increase my hand size.


I have not seen this approach win games. But I hope to see it, since one of the great things about this game are the different paths to take. So I look forward to watching someone make that work in a game that I am part of. thumbsup

Also, the +1 hand size is an obvious choice for many strategies, not "only...focusing on hiring cowboys and buying lots of cows."
 
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Vance VanGogh
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In the last game I played I took the movement, mainly because I had been tight on money all game, and while I could've afforded it, taking +3 coins with the movement instead of paying 5 coins seemed to make sense, as I had my engineer slot stacked to get a double employ action and I wanted to do that more at the time.

I think it paid off OK, as I won handily, granted it was my second game and I was playing against people who had just learned it.
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Chris Bock
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The last game I played I never bought a cow. So there was never a reason for me to increase my hand size.

Also, I won.
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Danwarr
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33cb wrote:
The last game I played I never bought a cow. So there was never a reason for me to increase my hand size.

Also, I won.


I'm curious as to how you managed this. Not even 1 cow? That must have been some seriously aggressive certificate management.
 
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R. Eric Reuss
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Danwarr wrote:
33cb wrote:
The last game I played I never bought a cow. So there was never a reason for me to increase my hand size.

Also, I won.


I'm curious as to how you managed this. Not even 1 cow? That must have been some seriously aggressive certificate management.

I'm not the original commenter, but I also did "win with no cow purchases" once. Cert management certainly played a part, but wasn't the focus of my game. How it worked:

Grabbed the only Builder on turn 1. Built cash flow (and bled it from opponents) via buildings on painful-to-detour-around routes; also did a -6 delivery first for early liquidity. Focused primarily on Builders/buildings, with Engineers/train as a secondary. ("Hire an employee for cheaper" was a building I used frequently.) I can't remember midgame much other than that I used the cheap-building 4th Builder hire at least twice. Ended the game with "deliver to SanFran via moving backwards 18", and a delivery to 10 or 12 (via certs) the next turn.

Avoiding terrible deliveries came via a combination of dropping 1s to Engineer hires (which also sometimes gave certs), a hazard-track building, the "draw 2 discard 2" auxiliary, and occasional cow sales from hand. I wasn't blitzing to deliver; I got around the "you can only build once/lap" problem via using/re-using the 4th/6th Builder spaces which give you a free Build action for cheaper.

It was hardly a perfect game - in hindsight, I figured that I probably *ought* to have bought a cow mid-game. (The early cattle market was extremely topheavy - one yellow, one blue, the rest all brown/purple - part of why I went builder.) And if the other players had pushed tempo more aggressively I either would not have won or would have won by a much smaller margin; something like 40% of my points came in on the final 5 turns. (Though that seems to be not too unusual?)
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Chris Bock
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Danwarr wrote:
33cb wrote:
The last game I played I never bought a cow. So there was never a reason for me to increase my hand size.

Also, I won.


I'm curious as to how you managed this. Not even 1 cow? That must have been some seriously aggressive certificate management.


The bulk of my points came from hazard tiles plus the station master tile that awards 3 points per pair of hazard tiles. Early game I was hiring builders and engineers so that I could build the building that lets you remove a hazard for $5 and the building that gives money for buildings in trees. Once I had the buildings I needed I stationed my builders at stations to nab the the station master tiles. In the end I had 4 of the 5 station master tiles, 9 hazard tiles, and quite a few discs at railway stations. I moved very slowly accumulating tiles, making money, and gaining certificates. I made 2 or 3 fewer deliveries than my two opponents, which is good because I would have lost points delivering had I reached Kansas City more often.
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saccenti wrote:

I have not seen this approach win games. But I hope to see it, since one of the great things about this game are the different paths to take. So I look forward to watching someone make that work in a game that I am part of. thumbsup


I think an on-line implementation of this game would be wonderful; there's so many different opinions on these forums "cowboys are broken!" "buildings are useless!" "can anyone stop engineers?" it would be cool to see how it plays out when all the group thinks collide.

Any on-line board gaming site developers out there listening? whistle
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