Chuck Hurd
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From reading various posts and responses, there seems to be a consensus that the only treasure cards you can play during combat are those that generate symbols for combat. I believe that premise derived from the text on page 10:
"You can use abilities or play Treasure Cards to generate
the symbols you will need in combat, of course, but you can
only move, Drink Elixir, or perform Room Actions after combat
has been resolved." (Further limited by text on page 11.)

I'm challenging the notion though that playing Treasure cards during combat is limited to only cards that generate symbols, at least until there is official clarification. The first reasoning I have is others can play cards against you during your combat. It doesn't make sense that you have to be a sitting duck for such actions. The second reasoning I have is the referenced quote above uses the text "of course" when indicating you can play cards to generate symbols. The longer (but not stated text and implication) would seem to be "You can play treasure cards during combat normally (because nowhere else in this rulebook is that excluded), so 'of course' you can play them for their symbols." What else would this "of course" mean?

And if there is an official clarification it would have to be card specific IMO since I don't see any logical reason not to play Counterspell (at least) if someone hits you with say Amnesia during your combat.

So it got me wondering why not play any treasure card during combat (excluding Elixir, which is specifically mentioned)? And if you did what other timing issues would it raise?


Cards that can be played against you during Combat:
Amnesia: Choose an enemy player. They can't use any Hero abilities this turn. (Corrected - must be played at the start of a Hero's turn.)
Counterspell: Cancel the effect of another card.
Lightning Bolt: Choose a straight line of connected tiles in the dungeon and deal 1 Wound to every Hero in it.
Mounting Dread: All Monsters and Bosses have 1 extra Defense this turn. (Corrected - must be played at the start of a Hero's turn.)
Vampiric Bite: All Enemy Heroes in your room and adjacent rooms take 1 Wound. Heal the amount of Wounds dealt.

Cards you should [it would be nice to] be able to play reactively/defensively during Combat:
Counterspell: Cancel the effect of another card.
Invisibility: Avoid monsters' and bosses' combat and special abilities until the end of this turn. You may cancel this effect at any time during your turn.
Hex: If you're targeted by another player's Treasure Card, deal 1 Wound to their Hero, then draw 1 card.
Teleportation: Teleport yourself to a previously explored room anywhere in the dungeon.
Banish: Choose and remove one monster from the dungeon. You don't get any XP or Treasure for this banishment.
Pickpocket: Steal up to 3 gold from the player with the most gold. If there's a tie, choose and steal from one of the tied players.
Magic Barrier: Gain two Shield symbols.
Magic Swap: Swap places with any other monster or Hero anywhere in the dungeon.
Filch: Steal a random Treasure card from a player whose Hero is in the same or adjacent room.


The main timing issues I see would be about Teleportation and Magic Swap - and those would probably center on what to do with the Wounds dealt by the Monsters, if any. Personally, I would play that you escape all the effects of the combat when playing those cards. You instantly remove yourself right before any payback, notwithstanding any other limitation of the cards or monster abilities.

There is nothing in the rulebook that says you cannot play Treasure cards freely during combat, with the exception of Elixir generating cards, which I would extend to Divine Intervention as well because the card clearly shows an Elixir symbol. In fact we have specific language that says you can play cards at anytime during your turn and of course you can play them for their combat symbols during combat.

From page 21:
"Playing Treasure Cards
You can play a Treasure Card to gain the benefit shown in the
purple part of the card at any point during your turn. Resolve
the effect described, then discard the card.
You can play a Treasure Card for the interrupt effect (orange) at
any time during the game, but only if you fulfill any requirements
listed on the card. After resolving the effects, discard the card." (Further limited by text on page 11.)

Thoughts?

Corrected - See below.
Per Page 11:
"Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used during
the fight, such as Sword, Bow, or Shield."

Thanks all for putting me on the right track.blush
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Luke Butler
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
This is in the rulebook.

Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.

Example: When the Orc got its Payback on Jay, he could use his
starting ability to dock 1 action die and generate 1 DEFENCE.
This way, he would only suffer 2 Wounds instead of 3.
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Chuck Hurd
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
Xavarir wrote:
This is in the rulebook.

Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.

Example: When the Orc got its Payback on Jay, he could use his
starting ability to dock 1 action die and generate 1 DEFENCE.
This way, he would only suffer 2 Wounds instead of 3.

You are not quoting from the current rulebook released with the game.
 
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Caitlin Tracy
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
Carcking wrote:
Xavarir wrote:
This is in the rulebook.

Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.

Example: When the Orc got its Payback on Jay, he could use his
starting ability to dock 1 action die and generate 1 DEFENCE.
This way, he would only suffer 2 Wounds instead of 3.

You are not quoting from the current rulebook released with the game.


Yes he is, it's listed on page 11 of the rulebook that shipped with the game. I just checked my own copy. I agree the rules are not layed out quite as well as they could be but once you find the right section it is spelled out pretty clearly that in combat only those types of treasure cards can be played. Of course of this stops you from enjoying the game fully there is nothing stopping you from changing that rule!
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Chuck Hurd
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
Caitlin147 wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Xavarir wrote:
This is in the rulebook.

Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.

Example: When the Orc got its Payback on Jay, he could use his
starting ability to dock 1 action die and generate 1 DEFENCE.
This way, he would only suffer 2 Wounds instead of 3.

You are not quoting from the current rulebook released with the game.


Yes he is, it's listed on page 11 of the rulebook that shipped with the game. I just checked my own copy. I agree the rules are not layed out quite as well as they could be but once you find the right section it is spelled out pretty clearly that in combat only those types of treasure cards can be played. Of course of this stops you from enjoying the game fully there is nothing stopping you from changing that rule!

Ah yes, I see it now. Dammit. Thanks for that.

So the assumption is that other players CAN play cards during YOUR combat.

That means the player IS a sitting duck in Combat.
 
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Bobby Warren
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
Carcking wrote:
So the assumption is that other players CAN play cards during YOUR combat.

That means the player IS a sitting duck in Combat.

As I recall, most of the cards other players can play on you during your turn have to be played at the start of your turn. Most, if not all, of them won't be able to impact a combat once it starts.
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Kevin Clark
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
Carcking wrote:
Ah yes, I see it now. Dammit. Thanks for that.

So the assumption is that other players CAN play cards during YOUR combat.

That means the player IS a sitting duck in Combat.

Another thing you missed is that "Amnesia" and "Mounting Dread" cards are only allowed to be played at the start of a players turn (written at the top of the cards). So these cannot be played in the middle of combat. You're welcome!
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Chuck Hurd
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Re: Why not play Treasure cards during combat?
DrWorm331 wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Ah yes, I see it now. Dammit. Thanks for that.

So the assumption is that other players CAN play cards during YOUR combat.

That means the player IS a sitting duck in Combat.

Another thing you missed is that "Amnesia" and "Mounting Dread" cards are only allowed to be played at the start of a players turn (written at the top of the cards). So these cannot be played in the middle of combat. You're welcome!

Ah, yes, good catch. Thanks.
 
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Kevin Clark
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Carcking wrote:
Ah, yes, good catch. Thanks.


I've had to deny more than a few that have tried to spring those cards on me in the middle of a combat! Once your planning is done, it would really suck to get blasted with one of those.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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DrWorm331 wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Ah, yes, good catch. Thanks.


I've had to deny more than a few that have tried to spring those cards on me in the middle of a combat! Once your planning is done, it would really suck to get blasted with one of those.

Yes, well as it is you can take wounds that could kill you in the middle of combat. You're helpless against Lightning Bolt and Vampiric Bite.
Still debating with myself. Not sure I'll play this per the rulebook. Will probably allow at least Counterspell and probably Hex during combat. It just doesn't seem "fun" to be a sitting duck with no defense against such sniping. To me it doesn't feel like the spirit of the game.
 
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Bobby Warren
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Carcking wrote:
Still debating with myself. Not sure I'll play this per the rulebook. Will probably allow at least Counterspell and probably Hex during combat. It just doesn't seem "fun" to be a sitting duck with no defense against such sniping. To me it doesn't feel like the spirit of the game.

Just rule that cards can't be played by others once combat is started until after the end of the combat.

The rule doesn't say "active player" it says "Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE." Nothing about limiting that rule to only the active player.
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Chuck Hurd
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Bobby4th wrote:
Carcking wrote:
Still debating with myself. Not sure I'll play this per the rulebook. Will probably allow at least Counterspell and probably Hex during combat. It just doesn't seem "fun" to be a sitting duck with no defense against such sniping. To me it doesn't feel like the spirit of the game.

Just rule that cards can't be played by others once combat is started until after the end of the combat.

The rule doesn't say "active player" it says "Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE." Nothing about limiting that rule to only the active player.

That is a good point, simple to enforce, and solves what I was perceiving as the problem. Thanks!
 
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Tobi Eb
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Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.


The only thing I do not underatand....what about effects and treassure cards that provide me with elixier e.g.? In case if I are about to fight undeads elixier symbols can be used
during the fight too! Only some resting elixier symbols I do not spend during the fight I only can use AFTER the combat action to heal up for sure.
 
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Chuck Hurd
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Tobinsky wrote:
Using Treasure and Abilities in Combat
Treasure Cards and abilities can only be used before or after
combat, unless the card generates a symbol that can be used
during the fight, such as MELEE, RANGED, or DEFENSE.


The only thing I do not underatand....what about effects and treassure cards that provide me with elixier e.g.? In case if I are about to fight undeads elixier symbols can be used
during the fight too! Only some resting elixier symbols I do not spend during the fight I only can use AFTER the combat action to heal up for sure.

I lump this into the "such as" part of the rules text. Those symbols that are used in combat, including feet, magic and elixir, would be allowed.
 
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Travis Allen
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If another player is in combat that would result in them having 1hp, is there a timing window that allows an opponent to lightning bolt them (and kill them) such that they don't receive the xp and treasure?
 
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Chuck Hurd
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travistee wrote:
If another player is in combat that would result in them having 1hp, is there a timing window that allows an opponent to lightning bolt them (and kill them) such that they don't receive the xp and treasure?

No, because lightning bolt cannot be played during (anyone's) combat. Combat does not end, is not resolved, until any wounds resulting from the combat are resolved.
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