Cole Biere
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I considered the merits of providing an exhaustive analysis of Raiders of the Deep after having fully explored and examined all of the player options to be had in the game - that could take years.. And, as I have a tendency toward woolgathering, this approach could doom the possibility of providing anything of value to this project, anytime soon.. So, here's a bit of a yarn concerning my first 3 patrols, followed by a litany of musings, inquires and observations.. (I'll aim to continue this format through to the end of my career - with the intention of providing feedback to the designer, and, hopefully eliciting a few shrieks from the U-boat freaks..)

May, 1915 (Britain Surrounded)

U-19 of III Flotilla, under the commanded of Kapitänleutnant Albrecht Schröder, circles the British Isles in a climate of unrestricted submarine warfare..*

- First Patrol -

uneventful transit to initial patrol area in the North Sea..

2 ships sighted 11 miles off north-east coast of Scotland..

small freighter Cysne (600 tons).. and the ocean liner Lusitania[!] (31,600 tons) - identified as an auxiliary cruiser, thought to be carrying munitions..

shadow until nightfall.. plot course to intercept Lusitania.. target from a submerged position.. fire from all aft tubes (C35/91's) at close range (2 discernible hits/1 detonation).. ship clings to the surface.. re-approach target and engage with C/06 torpedo from forward tube.. the Lusitania sinks quickly in a fiery conflagration..

merchant vessel St. George (200) left adrift.. failed attempt to board due to weather and escort threat..

safe return to port in Emden..

a successful patrol (at 31,600 tons), awarded the Iron Cross, 2nd Class..

July, 1915 (Britain Surrounded - con't)

After mandatory refitting, U-19 is tasked to return to the British Isles..

- Second Patrol -

2 ships spotted upon arrival to patrol area.. freighters, Richmond (3,200) and Guido (2,100)..

carry out routine boarding procedures.. daylight approach.. the Guido flees and escapes following preliminary warning shots.. initial attempt to scuttle the Richmond fails**.. encroaching enemy escorts sighted.. U-19 dives to evade detection.. re-establish contact with the Richmond (now crewed and underway).. initiate torpedo attack.. target destroyed.. escort attempts to ram - just missing overhead as we dive below periscope depth..

lone freighter sighted on horizon (G.P. Harbitz - 700).. after some difficulty, manage to evacuate and sink the ship without incident..

a long and stubborn engagement with the Anglo-Californian (7,300) has forced us under.. crew exhausted as they attempt repair damage to hydrophones.. minor injuries suffered.. the boat was rammed by escort vessel during night surface approach.. 2 torpedoes fired to no effect (1 impacted but failed to detonate).. pursued the freighter for a submerged attack.. missed from close range with our last C35/91.. evaded further detection*** but forced to let the Anglo-Californian go..

return to port..

(3,900 tons).. awarded Iron Cross, 1st Class, and given opportunity to join Pola Flotilla in the Mediterranean.. turned down.. determined to show U-19's qualities on patrol in the North Sea.. a British blockage is paramount

September, 1915 (Britain Surrounded - con't)

- Third Patrol -

freighter Sverige (1,600) stopped and boarded.. taken to return as prize****..

[rolled a - 12 - banking an Encounter Multiplier, "Hals and Beinbruch".. ]

forced down after failing to engage the escorted Whitefield (2,400).. several attempts and many ill-spent torpedoes have left us with flooding and minor damage from a ramming***** attack..

2 lone freighters spotted.. close approach to board and scuttle the Roumanie (2,600).. and.. what appears****** to be an armed decoy (Q-Ship! Bradford City - 3,700).. enemy vessel attacks.. irreparable damage to periscope and forward torpedo doors.. deck gun fire exchanged.. Bradford City riddles our hull with shell fire before sinking to the bottom..

with significant hull damage and several inoperable systems, U-19 returns to port ..

[advancement of the 2WO status prompted me to give him a name, and flesh out his character******* with the Early Life/Pre-War Career chart - just as I had done with the Commander..]

(*)
I enjoy the fatedness of the generated Commander name, start date, Flotilla, boat type and patrol assignment..

(**)
I appreciate that the "deck gun" mechanic serves to model what could be a precarious and statistically murky situation (as addressed in certain threads that I can't for the life of me link to - sorry): warning shots, boarding to scuttle - opening values/setting explosive charges - or take as prize, and good old gun fire.. It works well, and is consistent with the levels of abstraction found in Greg's system. That said, some sort of representation on the reverse side of the "Ammo" marker would go a long way, I feel, in triggering the imagination and maintaining the narrative bubble.. By way of example, I didn't double-down on the Richmond (capture as prize for x2 tonnage) - just rattled away in desperation with the deck gun till it sank.. With plain text on back on the Ammo marker (something like "Boarding Parties/Take as Prize, or, maybe better, "Boarding: Scuttle/Take as Prize") it could be flipped as a functional reminder of the situation at hand, and to help conjure forth some of the era specific WWI surface engagement story.. forest for the tress, or some such thing..

(***)
Left column, pg. 11 of the rules book looks like a carry over from The Hunters? Case [9.2.2] re: initial roll for detection when going to Close Range calls for a "year modifier" - absent from chart [E2]..

(****)
I'm curious how this worked. Would they man the enemy vessel back to port? Under what circumstances? I wonder if these prize ships were ever attacked en route by other German boats?

(*****)
Just to be clear, ramming attempts are checked regardless of whether the U-boat is surfaced or "submerged" (attacking from periscope depth)? Is the implication of commentary [9.6.8] that it took several minutes for U-boats to fully submerge? IE get below 30 ft?

(******)
With The Hunters in general, when are people typically rolling for specific target ship identification? I know there's been some discussion elsewhere about the logistics of this (how much information the Commander/crew would have prior to making an attack..). As far as Q-Ship encounters are concerned, clearly the target has been misidentified - still, it felt a little funny to see the Douro (1,600) triple in size before my eyes - becoming the 3,700 ton Bradford City..

Page 15 of the rules book, case [9.9], states Q-Ship checks must be made when .."a U-boat Commander decides to attack a single Small Freighter on the surface".. I took "single" here to mean unescorted.. and assumed "2 ships" encounters involving Small Freighters would also necessitate checks for Q-Ships.. Have I misunderstood?

If I'm not botching this: in Q-Ship encounters involving "2 Ships", what becomes of the 2nd ship after Q-Ship combat is resolved? Does it flee during the exchange? Is there an opportunity to engaged it in an add'l round of combat?

Anyway, it would helpful to include: +1 Q-Ship Medium range, +2 Q-Ship Close range under the "Dice Roll Modifiers (other attacks)" section, chart [E3]..

(*******)
This really strengthens the narrative role-play aspect. With The Hunters I enjoyed identifying members of the crew (particularly the 1WO - whose career I would follow/play out in the event that they were prompted off the boat/given their own command..

Lots to learn, tons of fun, stay tuned,

Cole

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Ian Cooper
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Holy moley! You sank the Lusitania! On your first patrol!

You are certainly having an eventful game. A Q-ship on your third patrol - amazing!

Great point about some sort of representation on the opposite side of the ammo marker. I just hadn't been able to think of anything that would get the idea across and be able to fit on such a small counter. Your idea about text on the back of the counter is genius! I was focused on a graphical representation. I have adopted your idea for the next update. Thanks!

Regarding 9.22, thanks for the heads-up. I've removed that "year modifier" note.

Regarding prize crews: at the beginning of the war, U-boats always had a few men available to form a prize crew. As I understand it, they had duties aboard the U-boat, but they were not essential personnel and could be tasked to take a prize to port if a juicy ship became available. I have never read of any prizes being attacked by German vessels or U-boats, but it must have been a possibility. Most likely, these ships would raise an ensign of the Central Powers as soon as they were in friendly waters, and they may have used wireless to make friendly warships aware of their position. But I'm just guessing here.

On ramming - that's right - ramming is attempted at the start of any attack by escorts. WW1 U-boats submerged slowly and it did take a number of minutes to submerge below 30 feet. The ramming tactic was still in use at the end of the war, so it remained a threat to U-boats throughout WW1.

On Q-ships and misidentification: misidentification did take place, but probably not to the extent of making a ship grow to 3x her size. So that is not really realistic, but when I was creating the Q-ship rule, I really wanted to get across the surprise/shock factor of being attacked by a Q-ship, and I wanted historical ship names and ship sizes, so this is how it played out. It's probably the one aspect of the game that really requires the most suspension of disbelief on the part of the player. One could rationalize it by saying that there was fog, or some other "fog of war" factor. Another way to do it would be to choose a Q-ship that is more appropriate in terms of size. This would nicely solve the problem, although it would not always be possible, and it would negate the probability of being attacked by the most successful Q-ships, which is built into the Q-ship chart. But if it's an issue, this may be the way to go. For the next update, I've added a note to the Q-ships chart to allow players to choose a Q-ship that's closer in size to that of the initial ship encountered.

Q-ships can only appear when they are alone and unescorted. So yeah, I should clarify that rule (I have done so for the next update). But just go with it for your game - it's always possible for unusual events to happen, and whenever this sort of thing happens, I always say "just go with it". Whenever there's an unclear rule or a misinterpretation, I try to think of it as an opportunity rather than an error - it gives us a chance to use our imagination to explain it.

Also, I'm glad you got to check out the Q-ship rules. How did the gunnery duel play out? Was it tense? Did it feel dangerous enough?

I'm totally on board with fleshing out the minor characters. I've always liked the idea of starting a career and having officers take over their own boats and having a sort of "family tree" of officers going on to have their own boats and having their own officers promoted and given their boats in turn. A devoted player might even find ways of naming his entire crew and giving them names and backgrounds. With imagination, the sky's the limit.

Thanks so much for the report - VERY MUCH appreciated! Also, your after action report really has that World War One "feel". Hopefully I've succeeded in giving the player enough differences in terms of gameplay so it doesn't just feel like a WW2 U-boat game ported over to WW1. Your report gives me a lot of hope that I've succeeded in this.

Amazing after action report. Really just what I was hoping for! I'm really happy how this turned out.
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Cole Biere
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Lots to respond to here, Beery (thanks for your feedback on the feedback..), But for now, just in regards to Q-Ship identification - after your clarification, it's a non-issue (for me anyway), due to the fact that checks are made only against lone ships. Since there's no need to choose which ship to target, I'll call it a standard Small Freighter until just before engaging - at which point I'll roll for Q-Ship/specific ship ID.. Problem solved.

I would be wary of allowing players to choose their own Q-Ship. As you say, it would mess with the balance of the charts, limit historicity, and most significantly (by putting meta-game control in to the hands of the player at such a crucial moment) detract somewhat from the "surprise/shock factor" - so pivotal to this encounter.. Yeah, I really think it would disrupt the flow of the experience.

What about a note in [9.9] about waiting to ID lone, unescorted Small Freights until after the Q-Ship check?

Beery wrote:
it's always possible for unusual events to happen, and whenever this sort of thing happens, I always say "just go with it". Whenever there's an unclear rule or a misinterpretation, I try to think of it as an opportunity rather than an error - it gives us a chance to use our imagination to explain it.

I couldn't agree more.. there's always a danger or over-explaining/over-ruling.. Chalking it up to misidentification via fog/"fog of war"/misinformation.. works just fine, and works well to engage player imagination (upon which the life of the rules/historical data depends).
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Bog Pig wrote:
What about a note in [9.9] about waiting to ID lone, unescorted Small Freights until after the Q-Ship check?


Good idea. But I kinda like the feeling it gives to ID it and get it into your mind that it's one thing, but suddenly when you engage it, it's something very different and potentially deadly. Maybe I'm off-base here, but I think the initial identification adds a little to the surprise factor when it all turns around on you.

I'm also a little worried about the added complexity of IDing ships at a certain point in some cases but not others. It's not a big thing, but I'm obsessed with keeping rules as simple as possible.

I dunno. Maybe you're right. I'll think about it some more.
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Cole Biere
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Beery wrote:
Good idea. But I kinda like the feeling it gives to ID it and get it into your mind that it's one thing, but suddenly when you engage it, it's something very different and potentially deadly. Maybe I'm off-base here, but I think the initial identification adds a little to the surprise factor when it all turns around on you.

Very good point. Not off-base at all, hadn't considered this, but, yes, it's an integral part of the effect. In fact, with my patrol, that was the tone and inspired feeling, exactly (Q-Ship Bradford City, looming large, right in front of me - tarpaulins whipped off the guns, staring down the barrels from close range..). I derailed what could have been a great narrative picture by over-thinking the disparity in size.. great example of "error versus opportunity".. Man, these things are delicate! Now, I'm thinking, "please, don't take my suggestion!" - your option to equate size is less disruptive to the sequence of events. But really, it's fine as it is. I wouldn't change a thing. It so totally works to simply evoke "fog of war".. (initial sighting direct stern-view, in heavy fog - as the we close, she comes about, revealing the full breadth and dimension of the ship, etc..)

PS keeping the rules simple is a good policy - otherwise they really do just get in the way..
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Hi Cole. I think you were right to bring up the issue of the disparity in sizes between the Q-ship target roll and the original encounter ship ID roll. I've been thinking hard about it and I think your first feeling about it was important - some players might find that really takes them out of the game. So I've amended the note I added to the Q-ship target roster this morning, taking into account our whole discussion about it here, and advising the player to go with the Q-ship roll for historical accuracy, but also allowing them the option of choosing the closest ship in terms of tonnage to the original ship encounter roll. That way, players whose primary concern is historical accuracy can go with the Q-ship roll as it stands, while those who want the encounter ID tonnage and the Q-ship tonnage to match (for internal consistency in terms of the game) can do that too. The former may be viewed as a sort of "hardcore" option, in that it will tend to reduce tonnage amounts (many Q-ships were quite small) and maintain the probability of encountering specific Q-ships, while the latter will tend to make Q-ships larger than they were in reality, but it will make the game feel internally consistent.

I think it's definitely better this way - more options, no change in complexity, suits more players. Win-win-win, I think.
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Cole Biere
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I like it! Addresses the issue without forcing players to disrupt the game.
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Beery wrote:
I'm glad you got to check out the Q-ship rules. How did the gunnery duel play out? Was it tense? Did it feel dangerous enough?

It sure was! And, yes it did!

Here's how it went:

The Bradford City looms large in the dense fog.. our search lamps catch a glint from the barrels of the large broadside deck guns as they flash angrily to life, a gut wrenching roar that ripples though the wet air.. followed by the -POP- of shattered glass and the -BANG- of battered metal..

(I was very lucky to have rolled a "5" on [E3].. resulting in only 2 Hits - a modified "7" at close range.. damage to periscope and forward torpedo doors..)

Manned and ready, we answer immediately with our 8.8's, a simultaneous exchange of sound and fury.. U-19 takes significant hull damage and the hydrophones are out, but we're in better position to pepper the enemy vessel just above the water line - sending her to the bottom..

(scored two 2 Hits on the target ship with 2 points of ammo - for a total of 3 damage.. taking 3 Hits this time in return - hydrophones/hull/hull X2 - having rolled a modified "10"..)

I'm glad you modified the original rule (I can't compare, since I didn't get to try it, but I can see where it wouldn't be nearly as tense or consequential). As it is, the Q-Ship exchange is nail-biting, fast and furious.. And has a unique feel with the immediate fire/simultaneous exchange (somewhat reminiscent of Aircraft encounters in The Hunters, and welcome - rounding things out nicely with the near absence of aircraft in RotD).
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Beery wrote:
Thanks so much for the report - VERY MUCH appreciated! Also, your after action report really has that World War One "feel". Hopefully I've succeeded in giving the player enough differences in terms of gameplay so it doesn't just feel like a WW2 U-boat game ported over to WW1. Your report gives me a lot of hope that I've succeeded in this.

Yes, there's a lot going on here. RotD feels like it's own thing. I touched on this elsewhere - and want to expand on it for a future look at the game and the system as a whole, but: just like Silent Victory takes certain aspects of the original design and develops them in to more tactical or situational detail, suited to the Pacific theatre, RotD carries The Hunters élan forward with a certain austerity (I keep using this word..) that preserves the relative simplicity, while enhancing the already strong narrative role-play aspects. This all seems to lend itself, along with the novel era specific mechanics and historical details, to WWI in the Atlantic (don't ask me how - maybe I just have a thing for charts and muted colours.. I do). Anyway, for me, the three games, taken together, really have something to say about simulating 20th century submarine warfare. And achieve something outside the scope of the hobby.

Heck, well I'm at it, let me say that I'd like to see elements of the Mega Module included in the forthcoming "Hunters Deluxe".. I understand it will have some of the enhancements found in Silent Victory - so it makes good sense that it would gather itself back up in this way? Annnd.. I can sense that I need to stop posting for the day.. adieu
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Ian Cooper
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The Q-ship encounter looks good. U-boats should have an advantage overall (the Q-ships inspired a lot more fear than warranted by the actual danger they posed, and I've tried to model that "fear vs. danger" aspect in the game also), but there should definitely be the potential for the Q-ships to sink the U-boat if the U-boat commander is careless or unlucky, especially in 1915 when the Q-ships can automatically get the +2 for close range. I've considered boosting the Q-ship hit points to 3 (they had holds filled with buoyant materials to prevent sinking), but I'm a little worried that would make them too powerful. As things stand, one or more unlucky rolls on the U-boat Deck Gun Fire Chart could make things quite nasty very quickly (the Q-ship would get at least three attacks, and that +2 makes 9 the average roll, which would mean 9+ hits for the average Q-ship encounter - ouch!), so I don't want to push it too far.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QnVKK5Y_Js

Raiders on film! This captures boarding procedures!
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Chick Lewis
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Remarkable footage !
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Great stuff! Three ships shown being sunk in the film (Stromboli, Miss Morris and Parkgate) are currently featured in Raiders of the Deep (all were sunk in April 1917). Miss Morris is not named in the film, but she is almost certainly the three masted schooner shown at the 11:25 mark.

I've just added all the rest of the ships shown being sunk in the movie (India, Corfu and Patagonier) - I think it's nice to have linkage to media like this. The vessels will appear in the next update.

April 1917 was the month that saw the most ships sunk by U-boats (516), so unfortunately the game can only feature about a quarter of them.

I may eventually make a separate target roster for the Mediterranean so that more ships can be featured in the game. Currently, the game has only about half of all the ships sunk in WW1.
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Beery wrote:
..she is almost certainly the three masted schooner shown at the 11:25 mark.

Good eye! What a frame.. and that next shot gives me chills - looking between worlds, past conning towers and Tall ship masts.. truly haunting and incredible
Beery wrote:
I've just added all the rest of the ships shown being sunk in the movie (India, Corfu and Patagonier) - I think it's nice to have linkage to media like this.

it sure is. I'm crazy for film and photography - and literature - from this period. Very cool, Ian
Beery wrote:
..more ships..

robot
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Bog Pig wrote:
Beery wrote:
..more ships..

robot


Yeah. I'm a glutton for punishment (and I seem to have some sort of weird desire to make players shuffle through reams of paper, LOL). But it might make things a whole lot easier if we have a set for the Med and a set for everywhere else - and the ship names will make more sense - sinking Greek steamers in the Atlantic just seems a little weird to me.

But I may never get around to it. If the game were ever to get an official release via Consimpress, I'd definitely do it. As things stand, I'll give it a go if/when I get time.
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Patrol Report - U 19 - con't

January, 1916 (Lusitania Aftermath)

After a lengthy refit period.. snow falls as U-19 glides through the inland port of Emden.. bound for the British Isles, under orders to engage in strict accordance with Prize Law*..

- Forth Patrol -

Along with several other boats recalled from the west side of the Isles, U-19 reports for patrol in the North Sea.. opportunities to engage are rare and restricted.. shipping is scarce, merchant vessels are wary and less active in the wake of the Lusitania..

..

[no encounters]

..

return to port, empty handed..

March, 1916 (The U-Boats Return)

- Fifth Patrol -

arrival first patrol area.. 2 ships sighted off England's east coast..

close to intercept freighters.. identified as: Chistianssund (1000) and Ginette (300)..

we send a warning shot across the bow of the Chritianssund, evacuating crew before firing an aft C35/9 (impacts hull and detonates, but fails to sink the ship).. meanwhile, a boarding party struggles with ceased Kingston values on the Ginette..

U-19 lingers as the deck gun is maintained, reloaded and aimed at the Christainssund's hull.. a demolition crew is assembled to board the Ginette..

enemy escorts!** .. closing fast to ram.. dive!

- SCRAPE - too late.. violent wrenching and creaking of metal.. the escort vessel ploughs in to our top-starboard side..

[rolled an 8.. + 2 for being caught on the surface is "10".. 3 incoming Hits]

excessive flooding and damage to hull..

hydrophones pick up an unsettling sound of heavy objects entering the water at intervals.. depth charge!?

[rolled a 4.. +1 for Surface Attack? is "5".. 1 Hit - hull x2(!)]

bolts and rivets shoot through the darkness, as the cold sea pours in around our ankles..

we can't escape! .. evasive manoeuvres! ..

[rolled a 12(!).. 5 Hits, -1 for successful evasion is 4 - flooding(!), electric engine #2, flooding x2(!), aft torpedo doors.. additional flooding(!)***]

[Hals and Beinbruch allows re-roll additional flooding check.. no help(!) on a 5]

forced to blow ballasts and surface, we manage to successfully scuttle the boat - before being taken by the enemy as prisoners of war****..


Good grief, didn't get to use the Encounter Multiplier.. the gig is up and I'm hopping mad laughlaughlaugh I'd like to say I was pushing the system rather than my luck, but really, I just blundered in to that one.. Perhaps indicative of how dangerous it can be to Take as Prize - though that's not what I was aiming at - when facing multiple targets, time constraints and an impending add'l round of combat (it's quite easy to find yourself spread too thin with boarding procedures/surface engagements - which feels right to me..) In any case, the escort threat is alive and well in RotD.

42,400 tons.. For my next go 'round, I've elected to fit a UC II - in an attempt to drown my sorrows in the English Channel..

Hals and Beinbruch, my eye!

(*)
The encounter chart results, restrictions and effects reflect these machinations so well - and give RotD a much more episodic quality (distinguishing patrols and breaking up the game nicely).. Query: wikipedia article, on the sinking of the Lusitania, refers to the "recall" and "Prize Law rules" as a "secret order" from the German Admiralty.. Secret from whom? The public?

(**)
In the event that escorts arrive when rolling for an Add'l Round of Combat.. would a +1 Torpedo/Day DRM apply to the immediate detection check? IE have they arrived in time to observe the steam bubble wake? Did the compressed air C35/91's leave a similar trace?

(***)
Bear with me here: If flooding damage is taken during ramming, is add'l flooding checked before the immediate depth charge attack? (and, if more flooding damage is sustained from the depth charge, after as well?) Or, as [10.1.3] suggests, simply prior to next round of combat?

The first time in any Hunters game that I've been forced to blow ballast and surface due to flooding! - HOORAY! - and we were able to scuttle!

(****)
I was able to thematize the P.O.W result with the Commander's "final fate".. it's personal, but suffice to say: he learned a lot from his interment in Britain..
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thought I'd tack these on here - not as uncanny as the archival footage, but relevant to the details and discussion of the initial report:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko418jQabuY

(incredible Windsor MaCay animation, The Sinking of The Lusitania..)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06knf2z

(vivd recollections from WWI U-boat men, and a Lusitania survivor..)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b06mv93g

(a great 6 minute introduction to Q-Ships..)
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That second round of combat can be nastier in Raiders than it was in The Hunters. The ramming (which also models long range gunnery for escorts closing in) can really tear the boat up if you push your luck too far with an extra round of combat. U-boats in WW1 took up to 2 minutes to dive, which is enough time for a well trained escort crew to make life very difficult.

Well, at least the crew of U-19 beat the odds in that they lived to tell the tale. I too am glad to see a scuttling - I never saw one in The Hunters. I'm pretty sure I didn't alter the odds at all - odds of flooding vs. hull failure are still 50/50 IIRC.

And here I was, worried that the game would be too tame, with the campaign too easy to survive. With two campaigns ending in sunk U-boats after just 5 patrols and 1 patrol completed, now I'm worried I've made it too deadly. But I do think players will start to figure out how to survive long-term - attacking while submerged will help, as will resisting the urge to stay around too long with a ship that refuses to sink. I think you'll probably have better luck with your next campaign, now that you've got the hang of how the game tries to get your crews killed. arrrh

* If we're talking about the recall of the U-boats, even by 1916, the German high command really didn't understand U-boat warfare and I think they were desperately afraid of America joining the war, and the recall really does seem like a crazy thing to do (as the U-boats were really successful). But they did it. I'm not sure why they kept it a secret - one would think they would want the Americans to know that they were doing the humane thing. Maybe it would have reduced morale at home and in the trenches. Data over at Uboat.net suggests a few boats did go out on patrol despite the recall.

** I "think" the immediate check is meant to model escorts appearing due to a wireless distress message. Since this is a rule that is taken directly from The Hunters, I may be mistaken (also, it's like 3am right now, so I'm falling asleep, LOL) but I suspect Greg's idea was that the immediate check includes everything (all the modifiers) from the earlier attack.

*** Flooding is always determined at the end of the round of combat. So you place markers for any flooding from the ramming and the depth charges, and any extra flooding only takes place after both. These attacks, while separate for game purposes, are kinda considered a single attack, as they literally happen within less than a minute of each other.

Regarding the C35/91s, if I recall correctly, all the torpedoes used in WW1 were "wet heaters" which used air for combustion. The leftover nitrogen was what caused the bubble wake. As far as I was able to tell (there's not a lot of info out there on WW1 torpedoes) all the torpedoes used in WW1 left a bubble wake.
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Cole Biere
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Beery wrote:
now I'm worried I've made it too deadly

Well, I was being pretty stubborn with torpedo expenditure, became a little fixated on boarding, saw all those escorts on the add'l round of combat table and rolled anyway (I like to think we weren't expecting depth charges).. And, I had some pretty freakish flooding rolls (both damage and additional). So, I may not be the best sample to gauge from..

Took me a few play-throughs of The Hunters to learn caution - it's sure not a button masher..

I think I'm getting a feel for RotD, and I'm really enjoying it.

Thanks for all the information, Ian



PS

I may skip over to the Med for an Austrian campaign before taking the UC II for a spin
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Ian Cooper
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I'm really glad you're enjoying it. I just wish I hadn't made so many silly errors and typos. At least I got the rules pretty much right, but I feel bad when people spend money printing the stuff out and then I find I've made a silly error like the one you found yesterday with the UCIIs. Still, I guess every game goes through a process of finding and fixing bugs, but it kinda sucks when the players have to be the bug testers.

But please (and this goes for everyone) keep finding bugs. I'd like the game to be bug-free ASAP so that people can finally just enjoy it.
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Fair enough. Errors are bound to creep in with something this monumental - especially when you're single-handedly taking on design, research and development. Gotta enjoy the process. It's a great project, and I'm just happy to be of some service to it.
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