chang chang

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EDIT: ANSWERED. Thanks

Hi all,
sorry I don't post this on the main faqs thread, but the discussion might get lost and I want to make sure I get it

I`m IN LOVE with this game, we haven't stop playing since Thursday, stop now for 4h because my bf has a DnD sessions.. which I guess is god, so I verify this rules LOL

SPOILERS.
PICTURE of abilities monsters and map (up to scenario 4) below.. as well as specific mentions of abilities (monsters and characters)


.
.
.
.
....

now....

we are not 100% sure we are playing area of affect when they happen at the edge of an open door.. for example...

 


1. How does my tikerer would apply FLAMETHROWER in that scenario?

Taking from the Faqs: that
Quote:
Can I target enemies out of my line-of-sight with an area attack?
No, you can only target enemies in your line of sight for all abilities.


We played that, because the bandit commander was in melee standing on the door, I could trigger the attack. Then based on the AoE the living bones behind it and the living corpse #5 would be in area, BUT because the living corpse area #5 is on melee of that AoE and is behind a wall, it doesn't get affected (we though it was unfair my AoE trigger, but he cant melee me tru the wall).
On the other hand the living bones WOULD be affected because that is the "range" of that AoE and is on LoS, yes?

that`s how we played it, but we are not sure if the whole AoE should have apply.. OR if it would have not affected anyone but the commander.

2. ON the same picture..
If I were to use NET SHOOTER, then this WOULD apply to the same enemies mention above (living bones, commander) because is range, hence the wall block LoS for the living corpse, yes? no?

3. On the same picture..
Lets say that BRUTE is the one standing in the position of Tikerer. How would his SWEEPING BLOW work?

4. Could anyone point me where the rulebook talks about LoS? I only need LoS for ONE of the hexes of an AoE for the whole area to affected, right? (except on the situations above with the walls, if we are doing this right)


another example..

 


1. 1st let me take this to make sure we played the Focus - trap well.
figures standing where their bases are.
So the EARTH DEMON have a move of 2, with that attack he could only attack Brute AND only by moving into the trap. Hence he would move into the trap space and do so, right?

2. Now.. of course for above to be valid of course we have to be doing that AoE well.
Assuming the EARTH DEMON was standing where the trap is.. and following the same logic as the FLAMETHROWER above, he would be able to hit BRUTE. yes? no?

****
On a side note..
CULTIST: one of his card says ON DEATH and has an AoE, this means that if the cultist dies on that turn, he would do an attack on those hexes before he falls?

thanks for all your help..

EDIT: picture of the cards in question in case someone don't remember the hexes and don't have their game handy

 


again.. THANKS for your time
cant wait for 10pm

 
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Matthieu Bonnaffoux
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Hi !
First, I'm a EU backer, so I still do not have my copy, and I only played on TTS. But I have read the FAQ to some extent.

FIRST PICTURE:
1) This question was asked before; I don't remember the official answer for sure, but from what I understand :
the rules about LoS say they are from corner to corner, and only walls block them.
So, you have a LoS corner to corner to the Living Corpse #5, through the Commander's hex. So, you can Attack the Living Corpse, Living Bones and Commander with your Flamethrower !!!
On the other hand, since the LoS to the Living Corpse is necessarily through the Commander's hex, it is still at range 2, so regular melee attacks are not possible.

2)Using you Net, the LoS is the same, so you can also target all 3 of them (but remember that Net Thrower is a range Attack, so you will have disadvantage on the Commander for being adjacent to him, if you don't move back before attacking).

3)The Brute could only strike the Commander, because the Living Corpse is at range 2, as stated above.

EDIT : after some more thinking, maybe I am wrong with the FlameThrower being able to target the Living Corpse at range 2 (the problem here comes from the range, not the LoS) ...
But the Net Thrower should definitely be able to target all 3 of them.


4) You need a LoS to EACH monster in your AoE, to be able to Attack this monster. But again, LoS are only restricted by walls, and you can draw them corner to corner, so most of the time it should not be too much of a problem. (maybe I am a bit unclear, so what I want to say is you need a LoS to every hex in you AoE you want to Attack).


PICTURE 2

1)No. Monsters only move into traps if this is their only way to Attack EVER. In your example, it can prevent it from attacking THIS TURN, but it can still go around the trap and Attack on a later turn, so that is what it will do.
Also, the Demon can move through the other monster to the hex South to the trap, and Attack the Tinkerer through the door, according to the aforementionned rules on LoS.

2) If it jumps into the trap, yes, it can strike at the Brute. But it will not move into the trap, because 1).



I don't know for cultist, but since you spoiled me this card, I suppose I will have no choice but burning my copy whent it will arrive to warm up during winter cry

PS : I hope someone can confirm I got it right (about the rules, not burning my game )...

 
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chang chang

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Hi, tahnks for reply

Casiodorus wrote:
1) This question was asked before; I don't remember the official answer for sure, but from what I understand :
the rules about LoS say they are from corner to corner, and only walls block them.
So, you have a LoS corner to corner to the Living Corpse #5, through the Commander's hex. So, you can Attack the Living Corpse, Living Bones and Commander with your Flamethrower !!!
On the other hand, since the LoS to the Living Corpse is necessarily through the Commander's hex, it is still at range 2, so regular melee attacks are not possible.


hmmm... so it would go around corner even though is "melee" .. would that means that that living corpse could have also attack us at melee range?

Casiodorus wrote:
2)Using you Net, the LoS is the same, so you can also target all 3 of them (but remember that Net Thrower is a range Attack, so you will have disadvantage on the Commander for being adjacent to him, if you don't move back before attacking).


hmm... yea I though this one would hit; so no different between that (range) and melee... interesting

Casiodorus wrote:
3)The Brute could only strike the Commander, because the Living Corpse is at range 2, as stated above.


hmm.... if he were standing at tinkerer position; living corpse #5 would be at "melee" for AoE based on ur answer for the Flame Thrower above. WHy would his AoE melee work different

Casiodorus wrote:
EDIT : after some more thinking, maybe I am wrong with the FlameThrower being able to target the Living Corpse at range 2 (the problem here comes from the range, not the LoS) ...
But the Net Thrower should definitely be able to target all 3 of them.


based on the diagram, with my position I would affect the hexes with those enemies (living corpse #5, living bones and commander) range should be no issue, that hex at range 2 is part of my AoE; the question is if wall affect the living corpse or the living bones at all.


Casiodorus wrote:
4) You need a LoS to EACH monster in your AoE, to be able to Attack this monster. But again, LoS are only restricted by walls, and you can draw them corner to corner, so most of the time it should not be too much of a problem. (maybe I am a bit unclear, so what I want to say is you need a LoS to every hex in you AoE you want to Attack).


I cant find the LoS rule anywhere on the book lol


PICTURE 2

Casiodorus wrote:
1)No. Monsters only move into traps if this is their only way to Attack EVER. In your example, it can prevent it from attacking THIS TURN, but it can still go around the trap and Attack on a later turn, so that is what it will do.
Also, the Demon can move through the other monster to the hex South to the trap, and Attack the Tinkerer through the door, according to the aforementionned rules on LoS.


wait, what? EVER? so if it card have a move and attack, it would choose NO to attack and ignore that part of the card? Could anyone verify this? I`ll check the rules again; but that does not right. Will REALLY appreciate answer for this before my bf gets back lol

Also, unless I`m reading Earth demon card wrong, his AoE would not affect tinkerer, is a 2 hex front and 1 middle back. He cant position tru the door to get that and attack Tinkerer. no?


Casiodorus wrote:
I don't know for cultist, but since you spoiled me this card, I suppose I will have no choice but burning my copy whent it will arrive to warm up during winter cry


LOL... it does says SPOILERS like in 3 part of the post; and tells exactly what you would get spoiled about...

Casiodorus wrote:
PS : I hope someone can confirm I got it right (about the rules, not burning my game )...


lol
 
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Troy Laurin
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I'm still not clear myself about the ranged attacks through a wall thing yet, but my reading of the topics on this area so far seem to agree with you, Matthieu.

Line-of-sight is indeed corner-to-corner, so the tinkerer does have LoS to the living corpse and the flamethrower would hit it. I disagree that range is a problem though, because the AoE explicitly includes a hex that is range 2 from the character so is intended to be able to hit ranged enemies... so the same would apply to the sweeping blow?
 
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chang chang

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@troy thanks for input. I hope Isaac sees this and can answer my questions.
I`m having trouble understanding those spaces... the rules said the rules said that melee cant go tru walls, but maybe it means with no door near by; if there is a door like now. The living corpse can attack tinkerer; and I would have attack it with my flamethrower, as well as brute with sweeping blow?

Also any input on the trap regarding the earth demon? My understanding was that If its card says attack it would try to attack on that turn and go to the trap if the ONLY focus it has is one that can only be reach by doing so.

thanks
 
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Troy Laurin
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chang_1910 wrote:
hmmm... so it would go around corner even though is "melee" .. would that means that that living corpse could have also attack us at melee range?

No, the living corpse is definitely at range 2 to the tinkerer, through the door hex.

chang_1910 wrote:
I cant find the LoS rule anywhere on the book lol

Rule book p19 wrote:
Ranged attacks are accompanied by a “Range Y” value, which means any enemy within Y hexes can be targeted by the attack as long as a straight line can be drawn from any corner of the attacker’s hex to any corner of the defender’s hex without touching any part of a wall (any hex containing mostly black space). Only walls block this line of attack.


chang_1910 wrote:
Casiodorus wrote:
1)No. Monsters only move into traps if this is their only way to Attack EVER. In your example, it can prevent it from attacking THIS TURN, but it can still go around the trap and Attack on a later turn, so that is what it will do.
Also, the Demon can move through the other monster to the hex South to the trap, and Attack the Tinkerer through the door, according to the aforementionned rules on LoS.


wait, what? EVER? so if it card have a move and attack, it would choose NO to attack and ignore that part of the card? Could anyone verify this? I`ll check the rules again; but that does not right. Will REALLY appreciate answer for this before my bf gets back lol

If at the time of acquiring focus, the ONLY path to ANY character is through a trap, then the monster will path through the trap. If there is ANY character the monster can reach without going through a trap, then the trap is treated like an obstacle for movement. (p31)

The Earth Demon has a valid path around the trap, so treats the trap as an obstacle. It would move one hex towards the trap, but can move no further so stops and doesn't have range for its attack.

chang_1910 wrote:
Also, unless I`m reading Earth demon card wrong, his AoE would not affect tinkerer, is a 2 hex front and 1 middle back. He cant position tru the door to get that and attack Tinkerer. no?

If the Earth Demon was standing in the door, then that AoE would hit both the tinkerer and brute. If it was standing on the trap hex, then I guess it could hit the brute with its AoE (back hex), but there's no way to aim the pattern to hit the tinkerer.
 
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MrTroy wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:
hmmm... so it would go around corner even though is "melee" .. would that means that that living corpse could have also attack us at melee range?

No, the living corpse is definitely at range 2 to the tinkerer, through the door hex.

I see. So you count range in that case as going tru the door hex.

Wow, I would have never guess that.
So no melee attack can ever happen among characters in the tickerer`s and living corpse #5`s position.

Still wonder how sweeping blow would happen in this situation.

MrTroy wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:
I cant find the LoS rule anywhere on the book lol

Rule book p19 wrote:
Ranged attacks are accompanied by a “Range Y” value, which means any enemy within Y hexes can be targeted by the attack as long as a straight line can be drawn from any corner of the attacker’s hex to any corner of the defender’s hex without touching any part of a wall (any hex containing mostly black space). Only walls block this line of attack.


oh yea, sorry. We were trying to determine if there was some LoS section that would explained melee in the situation above. Because you have LoS there so we wondered if melee could happen. BUT as cleared above, that is at "range" 2, so no melee can happen.

MrTroy wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:
Casiodorus wrote:
1)No. Monsters only move into traps if this is their only way to Attack EVER. In your example, it can prevent it from attacking THIS TURN, but it can still go around the trap and Attack on a later turn, so that is what it will do.
Also, the Demon can move through the other monster to the hex South to the trap, and Attack the Tinkerer through the door, according to the aforementionned rules on LoS.


wait, what? EVER? so if it card have a move and attack, it would choose NO to attack and ignore that part of the card? Could anyone verify this? I`ll check the rules again; but that does not right. Will REALLY appreciate answer for this before my bf gets back lol

If at the time of acquiring focus, the ONLY path to ANY character is through a trap, then the monster will path through the trap. If there is ANY character the monster can reach without going through a trap, then the trap is treated like an obstacle for movement. (p31)

The Earth Demon has a valid path around the trap, so treats the trap as an obstacle. It would move one hex towards the trap, but can move no further so stops and doesn't have range for its attack.


interested, so between following the commands on his card (move + attack, which would force him to go into a trap) VS ignore part of his card to avoid trap (move + ignore attack only character he can focus with attack + avoid trap damage) He would choose the second option.

e.g. If in example above tickerer would NOT be anywhere close there. The earth demon can ONLY move 2, hence he could
1. go to hex next to trap, where he would not attack, hence ignoring part of his command card
2. Go to trap hex, where he can hit BRUTE (following his card) but sprung the trap

he would choose #1?

Sorry, page 31 on rulebook; only talks about Focus. and Focus is

rulebook wrote:
focused on last). Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movement


hence wouldn't this means that they would try to Focus on a character that they can actually attack even if this means passing tru traps (at least when their card command then to attack)?

thx

chang_1910 wrote:
Also, unless I`m reading Earth demon card wrong, his AoE would not affect tinkerer, is a 2 hex front and 1 middle back. He cant position tru the door to get that and attack Tinkerer. no?

If the Earth Demon was standing in the door, then that AoE would hit both the tinkerer and brute. If it was standing on the trap hex, then I guess it could hit the brute with its AoE (back hex), but there's no way to aim the pattern to hit the tinkerer.[/q]

actually yes, I read those hexes wrong. (thanks both) we had time to corrected because our game has just stop there, so he moved and attack tinkerer (he couldn't reach the door, he has move 2).

EDIT: I think that for most the rulebook and cards are quite clear; but the traps re monsters and the AoE around walls... might need some cleaning for v2 unless I`m the only one that don't get it
 
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Troy Laurin
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chang_1910 wrote:
MrTroy wrote:
chang_1910 wrote:
hmmm... so it would go around corner even though is "melee" .. would that means that that living corpse could have also attack us at melee range?

No, the living corpse is definitely at range 2 to the tinkerer, through the door hex.

I see. So you count range in that case as going tru the door hex.

Wow, I would have never guess that.
So no melee attack can ever happen among characters in the tickerer`s and living corpse #5`s position.

Still wonder how sweeping blow would happen in this situation.

Indeed. The range 2 determination was here for reference.

This suggests that sweeping blow would work too.


chang_1910 wrote:
e.g. If in example above tickerer would NOT be anywhere close there. The earth demon can ONLY move 2, hence he could
1. go to hex next to trap, where he would not attack, hence ignoring part of his command card
2. Go to trap hex, where he can hit BRUTE (following his card) but sprung the trap

he would choose #1?

Sorry, page 31 on rulebook; only talks about Focus. and Focus is

rulebook wrote:
focused on last). Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movement


hence wouldn't this means that they would try to Focus on a character that they can actually attack even if this means passing tru traps (at least when their card command then to attack)?

thx

At the top of p31 (emphasis mine): "Monsters without the Flying trait consider negative hexes (traps or hazardous terrain) to be obstacles when
determining focus and movement unless movement through one of these hexes is the only way they can focus on a target."
I read that as the trap being an obstacle for movement if it wasn't determined to be a mandatory part of the shortest path when determining focus.

Keep in mind that I've already been wrong about one rule clarification today, but that's my quota so I'm pretty confident about this one

chang_1910 wrote:
EDIT: I think that for most the rulebook and cards are quite clear; but the traps re monsters and the AoE around walls... might need some cleaning for v2 unless I`m the only one that don't get it

You're not the only one.
 
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MrTroy wrote:
Indeed. The range 2 determination was here for reference.

This suggests that sweeping blow would work too.


oh sweet! thanks for those links. the range thing should be added to the faqs, is definitely no clear on rulebook (imo)

I will edit the 1st post to ask about the different attacks on this scenario. I don't want to advance more doing AoE wrong.
Specially after we TOTALLY missed that you can mirror image. lol


MrTroy wrote:
Sorry, page 31 on rulebook; only talks about Focus. and Focus is

rulebook wrote:
focused on last). Note: Determining the enemy closest to a monster is not necessarily about which enemy is physically closer, but rather which enemy can be brought into attack range in the fewest number of movement


hence wouldn't this means that they would try to Focus on a character that they can actually attack even if this means passing tru traps (at least when their card command then to attack)?

thx

At the top of p31 (emphasis mine): "Monsters without the Flying trait consider negative hexes (traps or hazardous terrain) to be obstacles when
determining focus and movement unless movement through one of these hexes is the only way they can focus on a target."
I read that as the trap being an obstacle for movement if it wasn't determined to be a mandatory part of the shortest path when determining focus.

Keep in mind that I've already been wrong about one rule clarification today, but that's my quota so I'm pretty confident about this one [/q]

I asked Isaac on the Official faqs thread about this one; I think that answer would clear things up for me.
I really cant tell which is correct, both side have valid points imo

MrTroy wrote:
You're not the only one.

 
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