Jaclyn Courval
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So, we played our first game of Crime & Punishment on Saturday, and of course, we had new rule debates on a couple of things! I'm sure there will be more to come...

1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:

"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:

"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.

2. The new misbehave card Fork in the Road reads:

"Divide your crew into two teams. Draw 2 misbehave cards, one for each team. If neither team has a Warrant issued, proceed past this card. Any team which botches their card must return to the Ship. If all crew return to the ship, this job attempt is botched."

If you have BDH Zoe and Jayne in your crew (which say "When you Proceed while Misbehaving, take $100"), and you put one on each team, how much money would you get for proceeding past this card, if you proceed past both nested misbehaves? Would you collect $100 for each BDH, for a total of $200 for just passing this original card? Would you collect $400, $100 ea. BDH for this card, and then $100 ea. for the nested cards passed on on each team (meaning Zoe collects for the card on her team, and Jayne collects for the card on his)? Or would you collect $600--$200 for two BDHs proceeding through this card, and then $200 for each BDH for both nested misbehave cards, regardless of teams?
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Roger BW
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① That seems like a legitimate move to me.

② Hmm, interesting; I can see arguments for all your points. I think I'd go with the $400: each of the individual crew has passed 2 Misbehaves.
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Stormborn79 wrote:
So, we played our first game of Crime & Punishment on Saturday, and of course, we had new rule debates on a couple of things! I'm sure there will be more to come...

1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:

"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:

"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.


That's an interesting question. I would have interpreted it differently, but I don't necessarily have a strong foundation.

There are two different kinds of cards that move NPC ships - those that move them a certain number of sectors (usually 1, but 1-2 for the Operative) and those that move the ship to a specific location.

I would interpret Rapid Response as applying only to the first "class" of cards, but not the second, making it more like (from a player perspective) Wash's +1 to Drive Core range rather than something more akin to "You may Evade ones you arrive at your location."

The inclusion of the reference to the Alliance Contact card gives me some doubt, but if you interpret that you can ALWAYS move 1 additional Sector, it leads to some strange angles, like the "Legitimate Tip" option for Imperial Entanglements, where you would move the Cruiser to an Outlaw ship, then move it right off.

Stormborn79 wrote:

2. The new misbehave card Fork in the Road reads:

"Divide your crew into two teams. Draw 2 misbehave cards, one for each team. If neither team has a Warrant issued, proceed past this card. Any team which botches their card must return to the Ship. If all crew return to the ship, this job attempt is botched."

If you have BDH Zoe and Jayne in your crew (which say "When you Proceed while Misbehaving, take $100"), and you put one on each team, how much money would you get for proceeding past this card, if you proceed past both nested misbehaves? Would you collect $100 for each BDH, for a total of $200 for just passing this original card? Would you collect $400, $100 ea. BDH for this card, and then $100 ea. for the nested cards passed on on each team (meaning Zoe collects for the card on her team, and Jayne collects for the card on his)? Or would you collect $600--$200 for two BDHs proceeding through this card, and then $200 for each BDH for both nested misbehave cards, regardless of teams?


Another reason not to use the Big Damn Nuisances.

I'm honestly not sure, but I would say either $200 or $400.

$200 - You Proceed past Fork in the Road, but the two "nested" Cards are really conditions met to pass through this card, not something proceeded past themselves.

$400 - Jayne and Zoe both proceed through this card, so they each earn $100, but since each is only personally proceeding through one other card, they would only earn $100 for their own card, not each other's, same as if they were back at the ship.
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I'm in concurrence with Gwek.

For the Nav Card condition, you have a card that's telling you fairly specifically where to put the ship. Moving it one more seems rather odd.

I have to go with $200. The Job gave you a certain number of Misbehaves to get past. The nested Misbehaves are representing a more complicated and random condition of that particular adventure (Misbehave card), another adventure entirely.

That said, both situations are the kinds of things you have to have all the stars aligned perfectly for. That THAT particular Nav card comes up while THAT particular Alliance card is up, and the person who happens to have one (or more) of a small handful of Crew, actually draws one of the new Misbehaves out of an 80 card deck instead of the player next to them with a ship full of Hillfolk...

...I don't think it'll come up that often. For those odd events, if everyone can't agree, roll a die to decide which way it works today instead of bogging down in arguments and rule looking ups.
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Hopefully, we'll get a new FAQ before long.

Might be worth polishing up the list of outstanding questions from earlier products and hope that GF9 hits it at the same time...
 
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Scarbuck wrote:
I'm in concurrence with Gwek.

For the Nav Card condition, you have a card that's telling you fairly specifically where to put the ship. Moving it one more seems rather odd.

I have to go with $200. The Job gave you a certain number of Misbehaves to get past. The nested Misbehaves are representing a more complicated and random condition of that particular adventure (Misbehave card), another adventure entirely.

That said, both situations are the kinds of things you have to have all the stars aligned perfectly for. That THAT particular Nav card comes up while THAT particular Alliance card is up, and the person who happens to have one (or more) of a small handful of Crew, actually draws one of the new Misbehaves out of an 80 card deck instead of the player next to them with a ship full of Hillfolk...

...I don't think it'll come up that often. For those odd events, if everyone can't agree, roll a die to decide which way it works today instead of bogging down in arguments and rule looking ups.


I would agree it's not all that common for someone to have two BDH in their crew, but the first situation is one that would likely come up any time that particular Alliance Alert Card is played. After all, it happened with us, and we were playing the new setup card where drawing Nav cards is optional for the number of spaces you roll for. The Alert Card is only changed when the Alliance Contact card is drawn, and there's 3 "He'll come at you sideways" cards.
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The last game we played had two Crews, each with two BDHs. Just saying... whistle

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gwek wrote:


That's an interesting question. I would have interpreted it differently, but I don't necessarily have a strong foundation.

There are two different kinds of cards that move NPC ships - those that move them a certain number of sectors (usually 1, but 1-2 for the Operative) and those that move the ship to a specific location.

I would interpret Rapid Response as applying only to the first "class" of cards, but not the second, making it more like (from a player perspective) Wash's +1 to Drive Core range rather than something more akin to "You may Evade ones you arrive at your location."

The inclusion of the reference to the Alliance Contact card gives me some doubt, but if you interpret that you can ALWAYS move 1 additional Sector, it leads to some strange angles, like the "Legitimate Tip" option for Imperial Entanglements, where you would move the Cruiser to an Outlaw ship, then move it right off.


I originally interpreted as you did, but I changed my mind after thinking it over, mainly because of the "Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card" text. Why would it specify that card was exempt (which also does not move the cruiser a specific number of sectors, but to your current location), if the other cards weren't valid, whether they specified a number of sectors or not? It seems like it would have said something like "When a player moves an Alliance Ship a specific number of sectors, they may move it one extra sector." if they wanted those types of cards off limits.

I don't think the Legitimate tip would be as much of an issue, because it does say you may move it one sector, not that you have to. So yes, could move it to a outlaw ship and have the Cruiser contact that ship, or move it one more space and not--but still collect your rat money. Having the ability to drop the Corvette on someone mid-flight is harsh, but maybe that's the point of the alert card?
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Stormborn79 wrote:
1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:
"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:
"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.


The "He'll Come At You Sideways" card specifies that it has to be an unoccupied sector. So even if though you can move the Alliance ship an extra sector, it has to end in an unoccuped sector.
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JayJ79 wrote:
Stormborn79 wrote:
1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:
"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:
"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.


The "He'll Come At You Sideways" card specifies that it has to be an unoccupied sector. So even if though you can move the Alliance ship an extra sector, it has to end in an unoccuped sector.


Huh. I didn't even think about that angle. In what order of operations does the nav card and alert card resolve?
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It seems to me the nav card would have to be resolved before the alert card, right? Otherwise that opens up a lot more chaotic possibilities. Like moving the Corvette or Cruiser adjacent to someone a space and initiating contact, and then resolving the nav card. That certainly doesn't seem right.
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Stormborn79 wrote:
It seems to me the nav card would have to be resolved before the alert card, right? Otherwise that opens up a lot more chaotic possibilities. Like moving the Corvette or Cruiser adjacent to someone a space and initiating contact, and then resolving the nav card. That certainly doesn't seem right.

unless I'm misunderstanding the text, I believe this particular "Alliance Alert card" works in conjunction with the Nav card, in that the Alliance Alert Card modifies the parameters of particular Nav cards, so there isn't any timing issues as it is all part of one movement.
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gwek wrote:
Stormborn79 wrote:
So, we played our first game of Crime & Punishment on Saturday, and of course, we had new rule debates on a couple of things! I'm sure there will be more to come...

1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:

"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:

"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.


That's an interesting question. I would have interpreted it differently, but I don't necessarily have a strong foundation.

There are two different kinds of cards that move NPC ships - those that move them a certain number of sectors (usually 1, but 1-2 for the Operative) and those that move the ship to a specific location.

I would interpret Rapid Response as applying only to the first "class" of cards, but not the second, making it more like (from a player perspective) Wash's +1 to Drive Core range rather than something more akin to "You may Evade ones you arrive at your location."

The inclusion of the reference to the Alliance Contact card gives me some doubt, but if you interpret that you can ALWAYS move 1 additional Sector, it leads to some strange angles, like the "Legitimate Tip" option for Imperial Entanglements, where you would move the Cruiser to an Outlaw ship, then move it right off.
I finally received my C&P set today!!

Let's look at what the Rapid Response card applies to, which is Alliance Ships. That is the Cruiser and the Corvette.

Then let's look at what the card does, which is when moving an Alliance ship, it may be moved one extra Sector. There are more than two ways an Alliance Ship can move, with the two most common being by triggering an Alliance Token, or by drawing Nav Cards (one other way I'll get to shortly).

There are two mechanisms of movement for Alliance Ships, which are the ship moves to a Sector directly, or it moves X number of sectors (being 1 or 2, as applicable).

So if an Alert Token triggers the Cruiser or Corvette, "a player moves an Alliance Ship" as per the Rapid Response card text. Then as part of that movement "they may move it one extra Sector".

Nowhere is movement of an Alliance Ship linked to Sectors. Movement is either 1 or 2 Sectors or to a specified place. Thus once movement of the Alliance Ship has occurred as per the Alliance Alert Token trigger or Nav Card, as applicable, that movement trigger becomes irrelevant and the Rapid Response card allows 1 extra sector of movement. Remember that triggering an Alliance Alert Token will move an Alliance Ship anywhere from 1 to approximately 20 Sectors depending on where on the Map the player is and where the Alliance Ship happens to be. There is no tying the movement to only 1 or 2 Sectors. That is just how we (erroneously) are thinking about what "movement" is.

The next thing to look at are limitations/exceptions. There is only one stated on the Card and it is very clear how and when it applies, so every other way a player moves an Alliance Ship, except for the Alliance Contact Nav Card is subject to the "may move it one extra Sector" rule.

There is at least one more way an Alliance Ship can be moved by a player; by the deployment if a Cry Baby (only applies to Alliance Cruiser). That would meet all of the conditions of the Rapid Response card to allow the player deploying the Cry Baby (who may or may not be the phasing Player) to move it one extra Sector.

I can't recall off the top of my head if there are other Supply Deck cards in the official expansions that allow a player to move an Alliance Ship, but clearly the Rapid Response card does not just apply to Alliance Ships moved by Nav Cards and Alliance Alert tokens.

So I think the card should be read that the only situation which does not allow an Alliance Ship to be moved the extra one Sector is if the Alliance Contact Nav card is drawn.

EDIT: Another one is Dobson's special ability of calling the Cruiser to his Sector.

To me it seems this card also has both benefits and opportunities which will make for interesting tactical choices for players who have the option of moving an an Alliance Ship!

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gwek wrote:
Hopefully, we'll get a new FAQ before long.


Amen! Considering the current FAQ is more than 2 years old, an update would certainly be nice...

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gwek wrote:
Stormborn79 wrote:
So, we played our first game of Crime & Punishment on Saturday, and of course, we had new rule debates on a couple of things! I'm sure there will be more to come...
[q="Stormborn79"]
2. The new misbehave card Fork in the Road reads:

"Divide your crew into two teams. Draw 2 misbehave cards, one for each team. If neither team has a Warrant issued, proceed past this card. Any team which botches their card must return to the Ship. If all crew return to the ship, this job attempt is botched."

If you have BDH Zoe and Jayne in your crew (which say "When you Proceed while Misbehaving, take $100"), and you put one on each team, how much money would you get for proceeding past this card, if you proceed past both nested misbehaves? Would you collect $100 for each BDH, for a total of $200 for just passing this original card? Would you collect $400, $100 ea. BDH for this card, and then $100 ea. for the nested cards passed on on each team (meaning Zoe collects for the card on her team, and Jayne collects for the card on his)? Or would you collect $600--$200 for two BDHs proceeding through this card, and then $200 for each BDH for both nested misbehave cards, regardless of teams?

Another reason not to use the Big Damn Nuisances.

I'm honestly not sure, but I would say either $200 or $400.

$200 - You Proceed past Fork in the Road, but the two "nested" Cards are really conditions met to pass through this card, not something proceeded past themselves.

$400 - Jayne and Zoe both proceed through this card, so they each earn $100, but since each is only personally proceeding through one other card, they would only earn $100 for their own card, not each other's, same as if they were back at the ship.

Jobs and (some) Goals require Misbehaves to pass. The BDH bonuses apply to each Misbehave proceeded past. The Fork in the Road Misbehave Card simply adds more Misbehave cards.

The question of how many I believe lies in the wording of the card, which splits your Crew into two teams, but you are still one total Crew and you have to pass all Misbehave Cards to succeed.

Therefore, each Misbehave Card proceeded past counts. This is because the BDH bonuses don't apply to "Teams", they apply to the Job (or Goal).

If the Job has one Misbehave to pass and you had 2 BDH Crew, then logically the steps are:

1) Draw the misbehave card. It's Fork in the Road.
2) Draw 2 more Misbehave Cards (one for each Team).
3) If neither Team has a Warrant Issued Proceed past the Fork in the Road Card.

Each of the two Misbehave Cards are applied according to the normal rules for Misbehave Cards. So let's say that both Teams get a "Proceed" result on their respective Misbehave Cards. You now have met the criteria of 3) above. That is you have "Proceeded" on 3 Misbehave Cards and therefore each BDH Crew gets $300.

If one or both of your Teams do not get a "Proceed" for their respective Misbehave Card then they don't get $100 for the Misbehave cards drawn that they did not "Proceed" past.

So let's say Team 1 gets a "Proceed" and Team 2 gets a "Botch" and no Warrants are issued. Team 1 has proceeded past 2 Misbehave cards and Team 2 has proceeded past 1 Misbehave card. But I don't think this matters because I think the text of the BDH cards "When you Proceed while Misbehaving, take $100" applies to the player, not the individual Crew member (the player holds the cash, not the Crew, though I accept that paying Crew is a counter to that view; but I think paying Crew it just a Mechanism to apply a cost to you, the player, and it's not literally meant to represent a payment to the Crew (because the Crew pay goes to the bank not into the back pocket of the Crew and they individually have no money in the game to use for any purpose whatsoever)). Therefore both Team 1 and Team 2 BDH Crew receive $200 each because a total of 2 out of 3 Misbehave cards were proceeded past by the player.

Let's say Team 1 gets a "Proceed" and Team 2 gets a "Warrant Issued". Team 1 has proceeded past 1 Misbehave card and Team 2 has proceeded past no Misbehave cards. The Job is discarded and that is the end of the Misbehaving. Similarly, if the Misbehave was in respect of a Goal attempt, it is finished and cannot be attempted again until your next turn. In this case both BDH Crew get $100 each as the player proceeded past 1 Misbehave card.

The last paragraph of the Fork in the Road Misbehave Card applies as long as no Warrants have been issued, only one Team Botched their Misbehave and the other Team "Proceeded" on their Misbehave.

So if that is the outcome each team proceeded past 2 Misbehave cards, even though one Team botched theirs,so each BDH Crew gets $200. This is because the order of the wording of the Fork in the Road card is that you proceed past that card if no Warrant was issued and then you send the Team that botched their Misbehave card back to the Ship. Any further Misbehave Cards drawn and proceeded past by the Team that was not sent back to the Ship does not give a BDH bonus to any BDH Crew that were sent back to the ship.

If Both Teams botched their Misbehave cards, then they still proceeded past the Fork in the Road Misbehave card and thus each BDH Crew gets $100. They then go back to the Ship and that is the end of the Job/Goal attempt until next turn.
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Stormborn79 wrote:


1. We had the Alliance Alert Card Rapid Response in play, which reads:

"When a player moves an Alliance Ship, they may move it one extra sector. Does not apply to the Alliance Contact Nav Card."

While this was in play, someone drew He'll Come at You Sideways Nav Card, which reads:

"Player to your right must move Operative's Corvette to an unoccupied Alliance, Border, or Rim Sector adjacent to your current location. Keep Flying."

Are we correct in playing this as the player to the right can immediately move the Operative's Corvette on to the sector of the current player who's flying, initiating Corvette contact, since you can move it adjacent and then one more sector? As a group, we felt that the Alert Card would have excluded this movement as it did with the Alliance Contact card if it was not allowed.



With all the expansions, there are 25 nav cards that move the Alliance ships, not including the Alliance Cruiser nav card (yet another typo - gah). Most of those are Cruiser Patrol (Alliance space) and Persistent Pursuit (whole 'verse) and for my money, I feel the Rapid Response card should apply to those 17 cards only (which all move an Alliance ship a specified number of spaces) and not the rest, which teleport the Alliance ships all over the place arbitrarily. Or the tokens.

It'd be REALLY nice to see a new official GF9 FAQ on this, and everything else - the Hillfolk/Mudders issue for example - but I doubt we'll see anything new from them given A. how long it has been already and B. the alarming lack of care with the typographical quality control shown with this release. How the heck does the word "Standvard" make it through spellchecking?
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Regarding the Rapid Response discussion, maybe they specifically excluded the Alliance Cruiser so that players can't hit more than themselves with it (damn, I got hit by the Feds! But you're in the next sector, Joe, so I'll send it to you when they're done with me for catharsis!), but leaves the possibility of the Operative being able to hit more than one player, if they're in neighbouring sectors? I haven't played in a while, if the Corvette were to pass more than one player ship in its move, in separate sectors, would it take a Wanted Crew from each one, or only the one it finishes its move on?
 
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AMarsReject wrote:
I haven't played in a while, if the Corvette were to pass more than one player ship in its move, in separate sectors, would it take a Wanted Crew from each one, or only the one it finishes its move on?
The wording is "Resolve when the Corvette ends its move in an Outlaw Ship's Sector and when an Outlaw Ship moves into the Corvette's Sector" (my emphasis).
 
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Firedrake wrote:
The wording is "Resolve when the Corvette ends its move in an Outlaw Ship's Sector and when an Outlaw Ship moves into the Corvette's Sector" (my emphasis).


Phew! I was worried that an unfortunate gathering could see some massive carnage, but then again when we play we do tend to get lots of players hanging out at the Bazaar...!
 
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Firedrake wrote:
AMarsReject wrote:
I haven't played in a while, if the Corvette were to pass more than one player ship in its move, in separate sectors, would it take a Wanted Crew from each one, or only the one it finishes its move on?
The wording is "Resolve when the Corvette ends its move in an Outlaw Ship's Sector and when an Outlaw Ship moves into the Corvette's Sector" (my emphasis).
I think it was written that way to ensure that you can never avoid the Alliance Contact Nav card, as otherwise no one would ever be hit by it since you, as the player who drew the card, moves the Cruiser to your own sector!
 
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My assumption with the Operative's Corvette is to prevent the ship from blazing through multiple sectors, initiating multiple events and moving on.
 
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