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Subject: This or dead of winter? rss

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Kaede Farenheit
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I want to buy a new zombie game and Zombicide seems to be a perfect game for zombie-killing evenings... but the mixed reviews are holding me back.

Is it difficult to fix some of the common problems in the game? I don't mind incresing the complexity of the game, but I want a satisfying experience.

Just asking... Dead of winter has lots of good reviews but it seems to provide a "survival" type of experience instead of a "left 4 dead" game.
 
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Lee Schmitz
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These are definitely two completely different games. If you are looking to have a zombie killing experience, definitely go with Zombicide between the two. Dead of Winter is one of my favorite games, however it is more about dealing with a crisis and people - the zombies aren't really interactive per se'. You are playing the other players and the environment more than the zombies.
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Kaede Farenheit
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I know these two are very different and I think I'll end up getting both.

But Zombicide has very mixed reviews with some rules, that thing about shooting and survivors getting always hit first and all that... I'd just like to know if it's easy to fix because I don't like the idea of making silly rules just to simplify the game.

TLDR: I prefer """"realistic""""" and complex rules instead of simple and bland ones. Is it easy to convert?
 
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Terence Lee
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Yes, its an easy fix for Zombicide. There's been many house rules but it was officially changed for Zombicide Black Plaque. I believe now, if you shoot into a location with other survivors, only misses will hit the survivors so you have a chance of killing the zombies still.

Zombicide has very easy rules, but it should give you a very satisfying "Left for Dead" feel.
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Kaede Farenheit
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Thanks. What about balance?
 
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Terence Lee
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Some missions are definitely easier than others, while others are harder. Expansions also either make the game harder or easier (dogs are definitely hard, while the companion dogs help a lot). There are a lot of custom missions that were made that can be downloaded from their website so there's many choices to choose from.
 
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QorDaq H'Nter
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Kaede11 wrote:
I know these two are very different and I think I'll end up getting both.

But Zombicide has very mixed reviews with some rules, that thing about shooting and survivors getting always hit first and all that... I'd just like to know if it's easy to fix because I don't like the idea of making silly rules just to simplify the game.

TLDR: I prefer """"realistic""""" and complex rules instead of simple and bland ones. Is it easy to convert?


Greetings,

Firstly, full disclosure, I do not own Dead of Winter, and I have pretty much everything Zombicide--sans 1st and 2nd season KS exclusives and most of the artist packs.

Next, I'd say most of your questions have been pretty much covered by others, however I encourage you to check out the Official Zombicide Website, where you can Download the Rules for any (and all) of the various Zcide games.

That might give you a clearer picture in terms of how much work would be involved with tweaking the game to your preferences. There are also tons of Fan-made alt rules sets, campaigns, and one-off missions here at BGG.

All of that said; I feel that the design approach with Zcide has been to focus on flexibility and simple mechanics from the start, and GG (and now CMoN), have continued to refine the rules over time.

Zcide, in it's myriad iterations, is very much an action-oriented sandbox, which takes House Rules well. Thus, much of the balancing comes down to how you build your Search and Spawn decks, which expansion materials you include, and especially which characters you play. Most of the Core and big-box expansions have reasonably balanced characters. Not always so for some of the KS-related stuff.

DoW, on the other hand, which is a game I have NOT played but have researched quite a bit, appears to somewhat combine Ameri-thrash (In theme and tone) with Euro-style gameplay (in mechanics). Though I cannot in all fairness gauge its flexibility in terms of being mod friendly or really speak to balance either.

As others have said already, very different games.

Success to you on whatever your choice(s) end(s) up being!
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Rosen Crantz
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It's also worth noting that Zombicide can be easily played solo. Since it's basically a co-op frenetic zombie killing (dungeon-crawley) game. Each scenario begins with a map that you build out of modular tiles and place objectives on. It plays out like a simple combat strategy game with RPG elements as you move survivors across the map to complete objectives. The more zombies you kill, more XP and skills you learn to make the survivor more effective. However, you'll also spawn more and tougher zombies that will try to impede your quest progress. This is also a miniatures game, with lots (lots!) of highly detailed miniatures that really shine when they are painted. For this reason, it can also be more expensive than Dead of Winter. If this is the game you choose, I'd recommend Zombicide Black Plague. It's the fantasy Zombicide, but the rules are fine tuned and the plastic player dashboard is incredible for tracking your stats, and can later be applied to the modern zombicide if you decide to get more games. Some of the Black Plague rules can be house-ruled to fix some of the modern Zombicide shortcomings(ranged targetting priority, for example, where zombies are hit first and survivors are hit only on misses).

Dead of Winter really needs two players, or more players to fully enjoy given the traitor/deception mechanic with resource allocation. If you want a post-apocalyptic resource/crisis management game, Dead of Winter is the winner. It doesn't really have a "map" but rather locations you can try to move to in order to gather resources, fortify defense, etc. You'll be able to find gear for your own survivors (or even add survivors), but you'll have missions to complete each round requiring everyone collectively contribute to the resources required to keep the colony alive. The trick is, the resources (cards) can be contributed face down, so the other players don't know if you're telling the truth about what you are contributing. You see, each player also has their own secret agendas to complete, independent of the scenario win condition. And it's possible that someone could randomly be a traitor, whose job it will be to impede progress. This is really awesome in a group, but obviously doesn't work as well in 2-player mode, since it will be obvious at the end of the each round who lied about their resource allocation. It also doesn't include miniatures, just cardboard standees. Though the artwork is very nicely done. In addition to the original release, there is also a standalone expansion, The Long Night (can be combined with the original). I hear the Long Night is better, though I haven't played it myself yet.

Like a previous poster said, these are two really different games. Dead of winter, when played in groups of three or more people, can be really stressful and thought provoking. Almost puzzly when trying to collectively figure out what the best move is for the group with an emphasis on resource collection and allocation. Zombicide's focus is typically on running and gunning, with simple rules (makes it easy to teach new players), but offer lots of opportunity for the individual to do what they want (tactically) and even makes house-ruling very easy (i don't use Zombivors in my modern zombicide games, for me, dead is better). If Dead of Winter were akin to the Walking Dead in terms of action and drama, then Zombicide would be like dropping Rambo into the middle of it. Depends on what your inclination is. I like them both.
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Michael Taylor
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Kaede11 wrote:
Just asking... Dead of winter has lots of good reviews but it seems to provide a "survival" type of experience instead of a "left 4 dead" game.


I was wondering the same thing and finally decided what I really wanted was a zombie miniature game.

Turns out from the reviews even the TILEs aren't really worth getting in Zombiecide.

I'm currently looking at Dead Walk Again and New World Disorder: Zombie Apocalypse!.

But since you mentioned "Left 4 Dead" there is actually a supplement for it in the Dead Walk Again Yahoo Group. I don't know why it's not posted here, but since I don't own it I can't post it.

Left 4 Dead Supplement
 
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Rosen Crantz
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I haven't had any problems with the tiles in the Zombicide games. The cardboard is nice and thick, and I have yet to experience any peeling or scuffing of the printed surface despite many plays. The offerings in Black Plague are limited to a generic town (for now from only 1 season), but modern (3 seasons) has a variety of location tiles (prisons, shopping malls, neighborhood, city streets, hospitals, etc.). The doorways, halls, walls, etc, are all very clear and easy to read. Helps that the artwork is aesthetically pleasing. Gives the sense of an apocalyptic landscape without being overly gory or depressing. Expense would be the barrier for entry. Getting all of them isn't cheap.

I think you might be referring to the tiles warping. That can happen in high humidity environments (happened to me, too). All I had to do was weight them down with some of my old college textbooks overnight and they were good to go by the next day. They haven't warped again, since. I'm guessing, since they are shrinkwrapped so well, the exposure to humid air can cause them to slightly warp. But it's an easy fix.

In any case, you could always demo the game on tabletop simulator first, before committing to actually buying the physical copy. I think CMON actually made an official module base don season 1 modern zombicide, available for $9.99 (unless it ever goes on sale).
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William Hoyt
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Zombicide = light "tactical" miniatures board game.
 
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Rosen Crantz
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There is another Walking Dead game that was just kickstarted last year that is a co-op zombie miniatures game with slightly more involved scenarios than Zombicide. I would have backed it if I wasn't already invested in Zombicide. I can only have so many zombie games on my shelf. If this one is more in your wheelhouse, it might be worth waiting for it to hit retail.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/cze/the-walking-dead-no...

 
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Rosen Crantz
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Floydski wrote:

Zombicide = light "tactical" miniatures board game.


True. It's not Warhammer or anything where you need to measure out movement and need a laser to trace line of sight. The grid system on the tiles in Zombicide keep movement and range-finding simple, and the corridor-like map design makes line of sight a simple thing to figure out. No rulers, long sticks, or lasers required. Gameplay is more along the lines of Descent or Imperial Assault. Just with lots of zombies.
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Mark McG
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I've played both and prefer Zombicide, but only the base game. The thought of Zombivors repells me almost as much as ZomRomCom.
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Jimmy Hsu
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Zombicide is basically Left for Dead but in board game / miniature form. The game relies a lot on dice rolling and a lot of time there is a lot of luck involved (ex: you can get a chainsaw but roll all 1's and you're dead). The pro's with zombicide is that you can play it alone and there are a lot of expansions and extras (if you're into collecting and stuff). Zombicide Black Plague is definitely the better Zombicide version in my opinion.


With that, Dead of Winter is a great game if you're playing with 4 or 5 people. There is some downtime in between turns, but there is a story element to it and you feel like you're in an episode of the Walking Dead. Who do you trust? How can you get complete the mission? Who do you sacrifice? Do you feed the colony or save yourself? I've had some great games with Dead of Winter with casual gamers and advanced gamers. The expansion sucks though, so I'd avoid that.
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Kaede Farenheit
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Thanks to everybody.

I finally decided to buy both, but I bought Dead of winter first. I played it for the first time yesterday and it was awesome, we had a very good time with a group of 5.

I will buy zombicide in March and I prefer the modern theme instead of the fantastic one in Plague. Is there any place with a list of all the "improved" mechanics in black plague and how to adapt those to the original zombicide game?
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Marc Raps
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I'm not sure if there is such a list, but you can download the Black Plague rulebook here.
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