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Subject: How did Putin Get Americans to Commit Treason? rss

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There is no doubt that Russia has orchestrated the election of Donald Trump. In textbook fashion, they manipulated our electoral process to get a candidate elected to the office of POTUS; a candidate that they must be able to manipulate for their own designs.

How did they do it? Here are some ideas:

Start with the premise that the Russians can control him via damnable evidence of some act. So, he is easily manipulated, and thus their puppet.

Offer him something he covets. Money isn't on the table, but power and ego elevation through the Office of POTUS. Money may be on the table, through the ability to leverage himself out from underneath the paper dept his empire may be buried underneath - through future earning potential.

Put to good use the year's of expertise in covert operations, counter-intelligence, false information, and propaganda - particularly easy on a target such as the American public, where a large portion are uneducated, undereducated, or poorly educated in rational thought, and are prone to chasing after whatever shiny object that triggers their brains (of course done by demographics, since not one message is suited for all).

Undermine the opponent by interweaving all these techniques while using factual and fabricated evidence against the opponent of the puppet you want in office.

Wait to see what happens, and hope the targets are dumb enough to fall for it.

An essential part of this process is undermining the 4th Estate of the target adversary - by making many question the validity.


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No doubt?
Where is the evidence?

Hypothetically, if it happened.....

I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.
 
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Chris Binkowski
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darthhugo wrote:
There is no doubt




10/10 would vote for Putin again!
 
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TheDashi wrote:
No doubt?
Where is the evidence?

Hypothetically, if it happened.....

I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


Wait, what?

You are OK with treason against the United States because of WHY?

Seriously, to be fair, you should probably explain yourself, just in case this is used against you some day.

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Sarxis wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
There is no doubt




10/10 would vote for Putin again!


Yes, by certain Twitter feeds, one can definitely taste the owner's alliance to our adversaries.

So, I'll put you down for supporting Russia and their agenda for our country?



 
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darthhugo wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
No doubt?
Where is the evidence?

Hypothetically, if it happened.....

I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


Wait, what?

You are OK with treason against the United States because of WHY?

Seriously, to be fair, you should probably explain yourself, just in case this is used against you some day.



Ill explain after you produce the rock solid evidence of your claims.
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Chris Binkowski
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darthhugo wrote:
Sarxis wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
There is no doubt




10/10 would vote for Putin again!


Yes, by certain Twitter feeds, one can definitely taste the owner's alliance to our adversaries.

So, I'll put you down for supporting Russia and their agenda for our country?



I support Borscht, so maybe?



 
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TheDashi wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
No doubt?
Where is the evidence?

Hypothetically, if it happened.....

I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


Wait, what?

You are OK with treason against the United States because of WHY?

Seriously, to be fair, you should probably explain yourself, just in case this is used against you some day.



Ill explain after you produce the rock solid evidence of your claims.


No, you probably should explain now, how you support treason against the United States and its citizens. I'm sure many veterans would want to know what they have been fighting for, and how some Americans helped an adversary take control of the POTUS.

As for evidence, it is there. Nothing gets by the intelligence agencies.

I smell impeachment and several trials for treason in our future.

Ironically, Putin gets a W either way. We have been degraded.

But now could you please state for the record your answer.
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darthhugo wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
No doubt?
Where is the evidence?

Hypothetically, if it happened.....

I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


Wait, what?

You are OK with treason against the United States because of WHY?

Seriously, to be fair, you should probably explain yourself, just in case this is used against you some day.



Ill explain after you produce the rock solid evidence of your claims.


No, you probably should explain now, how you support treason against the United States and its citizens. I'm sure many veterans would want to know what they have been fighting for, and how some Americans helped an adversary take control of the POTUS.

As for evidence, it is there. Nothing gets by the intelligence agencies.

I smell impeachment and several trials for treason in our future.

Ironically, Putin gets a W either way. We have been degraded.

But now could you please state for the record your answer.


So doubling down on the lack of evidence, then? Have some evidence from our intelligence agencies, eh? Please do share a link, otherwise you ate just being an odious troll.
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
otherwise you ate just being an odious troll.


For the record.

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darthhugo wrote:
KrazyIrish89 wrote:
otherwise you ate just being an odious troll.


For the record.



Wow, what a wonderful gotcha. You've said far worse on this forum so I hardly think I have anything to worry about. Lame.
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KrazyIrish89 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
KrazyIrish89 wrote:
otherwise you ate just being an odious troll.


For the record.



Wow, what a wonderful gotcha. You've said far worse on this forum so I hardly think I have anything to worry about. Lame.



Famous last words.

 
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TheDashi wrote:
I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


I don't have a "hard time" with them trying to do it, Dashi. I accept international espionage as part and parcel of everyday life. I have a hard time with us (or any nation) accepting and/or ignoring it when it happens to them.

It's not treasonous for Russia to interfere with our elections. It's treasonous for a candidate for President to be complicit. See the difference? It's not hard.
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My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.
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Invalid tweet.
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jasonwocky wrote:
TheDashi wrote:
I have a hard time having a problem with a country doing something to our country, when we do the same thing to other countries.


I don't have a "hard time" with them trying to do it, Dashi. I accept international espionage as part and parcel of everyday life. I have a hard time with us (or any nation) accepting and/or ignoring it when it happens to them.

It's not treasonous for Russia to interfere with our elections. It's treasonous for a candidate for President to be complicit. See the difference? It's not hard.


Ooh, insulting me for something I didnt say.
BIG MAN!
 
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desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


If life were that simple. When someone is murdered, typically everyone involved is guilty. Sure, Clinton ran a poor campaign, and if humans weren't influenced by treasonous acts of fellow citizens, I would agree with you partly.

But, an election was heavily influenced by Russia. Americans are dupes and were swayed by this campaign. So, which part of that swaying are you indicating is Hillary's responsibility, and which part is Russia's/American Collaborator's responsibility.

To make things simple, we can just focus on the latter for the purpose of treason charges.

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desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


I largely agree. Trump probably didn't need to coordinate with Russia to defeat Hillary.

But if he did, we deserve to know. If he's covering it up now, we deserve to know. Even if he wasn't directly involved, if he's covering for subordinates now, we deserve to know. Hell, even if he did nothing illegal, and he's just covering for Russia's independent illegal actions to avoid embarrassment, we deserve to know. Don't you think?
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desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


So, you agree that DOTUS is completely unqualified to be President, but on the other hand you waive away any illegal factors that somehow allowed him to be elected - as if things are binary. So, because he ran, he would win. Moreso to your argument, because he ran against Clinton, he would win.

So, Americans are completely non-influenced by any data, propaganda, advertising, false stories?

Well, it appears you should be advising all political campaigns from this point forward, because you have some really novel ideas on how and why electorates vote.

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darthhugo wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


If life were that simple. When someone is murdered, typically everyone involved is guilty. Sure, Clinton ran a poor campaign, and if humans weren't influenced by treasonous acts of fellow citizens, I would agree with you partly.

But, an election was heavily influenced by Russia. Americans are dupes and were swayed by this campaign. So, which part of that swaying are you indicating is Hillary's responsibility, and which part is Russia's/American Collaborator's responsibility.

To make things simple, we can just focus on the latter for the purpose of treason charges.



C'mon, Rich! I know you are enjoying yourself here, and I'm glad to see you back in form, but unless someone can present an account of the verifiably false, manufactured disinformation that was produced and disseminated into the campaign by Russia, I can't place too much credence into your accusations. Show me a list of things said or claimed about Hillary during the campaign that were deliberate falsehoods planted by Russians, and I will consider changing my mind.
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jasonwocky wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


I largely agree. Trump probably didn't need to coordinate with Russia to defeat Hillary.

But if he did, we deserve to know. If he's covering it up now, we deserve to know. Even if he wasn't directly involved, if he's covering for subordinates now, we deserve to know. Don't you think?


He is not only intellectually unfit. He is mentally unfit. He is technically unfit. He is completely lacking in any relevant experience to running a government of any size...

but yet, your take is "because Hillary?"

Holy shit, the poison is effective.

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desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


I don't dispute that. I don't think anyone does. However, it is clear that multiple people in the Trump campaign were regularly interacting with Russia and the concern is the quid pro quo return that Trump has been/and will continue to give Russia in return.

It's the thought that counts. Maybe Trump would have won without Russian interference but apparently, his campaign and almost certainly the man himself, thought otherwise.

How many campaigns are doing things that don't directly benefit the candidate?
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desertfox2004 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


If life were that simple. When someone is murdered, typically everyone involved is guilty. Sure, Clinton ran a poor campaign, and if humans weren't influenced by treasonous acts of fellow citizens, I would agree with you partly.

But, an election was heavily influenced by Russia. Americans are dupes and were swayed by this campaign. So, which part of that swaying are you indicating is Hillary's responsibility, and which part is Russia's/American Collaborator's responsibility.

To make things simple, we can just focus on the latter for the purpose of treason charges.



C'mon, Rich! I know you are enjoying yourself here, and I'm glad to see you back in form, but unless someone can present an account of the verifiably false, manufactured disinformation that was produced and disseminated into the campaign by Russia, I can't place too much credence into your accusations. Show me a list of things said or claimed about Hillary during the campaign that were deliberate falsehoods planted by Russians, and I will consider changing my mind.


You are assuming that people can't be manipulated by factual data. C'mon, you're smarter than this.

Entire campaigns are run by manipulating the prejudices, fears, and frailties of the electorate. That is how victories happen, most of the time.

Putin just played Americans like the simple one stringed instrument that we are.

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desertfox2004 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


If life were that simple. When someone is murdered, typically everyone involved is guilty. Sure, Clinton ran a poor campaign, and if humans weren't influenced by treasonous acts of fellow citizens, I would agree with you partly.

But, an election was heavily influenced by Russia. Americans are dupes and were swayed by this campaign. So, which part of that swaying are you indicating is Hillary's responsibility, and which part is Russia's/American Collaborator's responsibility.

To make things simple, we can just focus on the latter for the purpose of treason charges.



C'mon, Rich! I know you are enjoying yourself here, and I'm glad to see you back in form, but unless someone can present an account of the verifiably false, manufactured disinformation that was produced and disseminated into the campaign by Russia, I can't place too much credence into your accusations. Show me a list of things said or claimed about Hillary during the campaign that were deliberate falsehoods planted by Russians, and I will consider changing my mind.


The entire Russian playbook of interference, and any good political playbook, is to find the exploitable targets and manipulate them with clever techniques.

Your regard for fellow Americans is the worst side of America Exceptionalism and Hubris. Then again, Russia knows that "Elite" argument is the best tool to exploit that divide.

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desertfox2004 wrote:
darthhugo wrote:
desertfox2004 wrote:
My thoughts...no doubt the Russians attempted to influence the outcome of the campaign. No doubt that at least certain members of the Trump campaign were actively in contact with Russian operatives, if not Trump himself. Having said that, it's a hell of a stretch to claim that Russian interference is the reason Trump got elected. Hillary was truly a weak candidate. Her lack of message, her concentration on attacking Trump instead of espousing her own proposed policies and programs, and her association with Obama-era political positions that much of the country rejected doomed her. I voted for Hillary for two reasons only - the future of the Supreme Court, and my feeling that Donald Trump was utterly unqualified to be President. Nothing has happened to change my mind on those reasons, but as far as I can see, Hillary lost because she ran a horrible campaign, not because of Kremlin intrigues, period.


If life were that simple. When someone is murdered, typically everyone involved is guilty. Sure, Clinton ran a poor campaign, and if humans weren't influenced by treasonous acts of fellow citizens, I would agree with you partly.

But, an election was heavily influenced by Russia. Americans are dupes and were swayed by this campaign. So, which part of that swaying are you indicating is Hillary's responsibility, and which part is Russia's/American Collaborator's responsibility.

To make things simple, we can just focus on the latter for the purpose of treason charges.



C'mon, Rich! I know you are enjoying yourself here, and I'm glad to see you back in form, but unless someone can present an account of the verifiably false, manufactured disinformation that was produced and disseminated into the campaign by Russia, I can't place too much credence into your accusations. Show me a list of things said or claimed about Hillary during the campaign that were deliberate falsehoods planted by Russians, and I will consider changing my mind.


My jaw is still agape that you are just assuming that the only lever to use to influence an electorate is false accusations - or moreso, that this is when you think the red flag needs to be thrown.

The difference in this situation is that the levers were being pulled by an adversary of the United States, not some political team of a US candidate. Furthermore, the team that won, was utilizing the FOREIGN power to gain power of our country.

Why you don't see this as a problem is astounding.

Can you sit down for a minute and imagine if the Clinton Campaign had cooperated with Chinese Intelligence agencies to spread disinformation, hacked private emails from Trump's campaign, undermined the 4th estate, to win the election?

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