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Subject: Enchanting Thoughts and Ideas rss

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Eddie Feeley
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Going into my first several sessions of Gloomhaven I had no intention of enchanting cards. I didn't read that section of the rulebook and avoided pursuing any leads to enchanting in the general story. After a few more scenarios I had equipped my starting character with items in all available slots and had started accumulating gold. With nothing to spend gold on other than blessings I started looking into enchanting. I eventually enchanted two or three cards before I retired my Cragheart.

That leads to my first thought on enchanting, equipping your character with a better load out of items seems more gold efficient than enchanting. For example, the jumping boots turn any movement into a jump once per long rest for 20 gold, where enchanting a movement with jump turns a specific movement into a jump once per rest (long or short) for 50 gold. Getting the jump card back on a short rest is certainly beneficial, but not worth the extra cost in my opinion.

The one exception I can think of is enchanting the bottom of a card like the Mindthief's Empathetic Assault (Move 2, Heal 2 self) with Strengthen for 50 gold. When played at the right time can give you advantage on your attack that turn and next turn. At least two attacks at advantage (potentially 3 if you have a bottom attack and the monsters stay close next turn) and recharges every rest. Compared to the 30 gold goggles that give advantage on one attack action and recharge every long rest. I think the enchantment in that case is better than the item. If an advanced class has an ability like that I would consider enchanting before getting more items, but every other case I would go with items first.

Other cards I felt worth the cost of enchanting:

Cragheart Massive Boulder with Curse 75 gold. Combo with Backup Ammunition and you can get two curses into the monster deck in one turn without doubling the cost of the enchantment! Wound would have been a good choice for this card too.

Spellweaver Impaling Eruption with added range for 60 gold (doubled cost because targets multiple enemies). More likely to target one additional monster with good damage and an added xp.

Those are my initial thoughts on enchanting. I'm curious how others feel about enchanting. Have/do you plan on enchanting as soon as possible?

Not to turn this thread into Legacy vs non-Legacy or sleeving vs non-sleeving, but I'm putting the enchanting stickers directly on the cards.

TLDR: Equipping your character with items is more cost effective until you have a surplus of gold.
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Michael Bennett
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I suppose the one bonus for enchanting is the permanence. From that point on every character in that class you make is just better because you've upgraded the cards.
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Ryan H
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I agree - costs for enchanting seem strangely high compared to the items. Is it more expensive because of the permanence? We like the idea that your character is truly your own to develop, so we are currently playing that enchanting is not permanent for that class, but only for your character. Should enchanting be cheaper if that is the case? It would be fun to be able to enchant more things in more useful ways before retirement, but it's just so expensive!
 
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Isaac Childres
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Eddie, thanks for your thoughts on enhancements. It was indeed intended as more of a mid-late game thing that you would explore after acquiring all the equipment you wanted. I would certainly recommend buying items over buying enhancements in most cases.
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Ben Baker
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Although items are generally less expensive for the reward they grant - there is a limited inventory that you can equip. Also, enchantments can work more than once per rest if used with stamina potions.

I find them to be incredibly exciting - and if/when I get my copy (we'll, I should say when - it may just be a long time) I am hoping to enchant as soon as possible.
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Benjamin Gentzel
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Plus your gold income from scenarios increase as you reach higher level. I realize that item costs will likely go up too, but chances are a lot of strong equipment will focus on specializing instead of being strictly better versions of items, so you might not be as tempted to spend money on them.

Also you're making me start to get excited about enhancing. Sure, it'd cost 150+, but imagine having a large AoE curse card. Suddenly you add 4 curse cards to the enemy's deck.devil
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Cthulhu Dreams
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feeleye wrote:

Those are my initial thoughts on enchanting. I'm curious how others feel about enchanting. Have/do you plan on enchanting as soon as possible?


The big money seems to be in adding a stun to an AoE. Adding a Stun to Dirt Cloud (the cragheart level 1 ability) would be super strong.
 
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Troy Laurin
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I don't think you can add stun in an enhancement. Curse would be fun, though.
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Luke
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CthulhuDreams wrote:
feeleye wrote:

Those are my initial thoughts on enchanting. I'm curious how others feel about enchanting. Have/do you plan on enchanting as soon as possible?


The big money seems to be in adding a stun to an AoE. Adding a Stun to Dirt Cloud (the cragheart level 1 ability) would be super strong.


Can't buy Stun effects. As you say, it would be super strong.
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Luke
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MrTroy wrote:
I don't think you can add stun in an enhancement. Curse would be fun, though.


My thought on curse is that it really only shines if you can get a bunch of curses in early to increase their chance of showing up.

I was thinking it would be fun to get a group and load them all up with Curse effects. Could be really effective, especially in a team with lots of multi-target attacks.
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Jimmy Brazelton
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mournful wrote:
MrTroy wrote:
I don't think you can add stun in an enhancement. Curse would be fun, though.


My thought on curse is that it really only shines if you can get a bunch of curses in early to increase their chance of showing up.

I was thinking it would be fun to get a group and load them all up with Curse effects. Could be really effective, especially in a team with lots of multi-target attacks.


Can I ask what group size you're playing with Luke? I saw from other posts that you've played 40-something scenarios, so I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this. I thought that Curse would be one of the most powerful abilities to add to your attacks, but that may be because I'm playing in a 4 person group, so there are lots of enemies and lots of attacks. With fewer enemies, the attack deck is cycled slower and Curse becomes less valuable I think.
 
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Luke
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aubaine wrote:
mournful wrote:
MrTroy wrote:
I don't think you can add stun in an enhancement. Curse would be fun, though.


My thought on curse is that it really only shines if you can get a bunch of curses in early to increase their chance of showing up.

I was thinking it would be fun to get a group and load them all up with Curse effects. Could be really effective, especially in a team with lots of multi-target attacks.


Can I ask what group size you're playing with Luke? I saw from other posts that you've played 40-something scenarios, so I'm really interested to hear your thoughts on this. I thought that Curse would be one of the most powerful abilities to add to your attacks, but that may be because I'm playing in a 4 person group, so there are lots of enemies and lots of attacks. With fewer enemies, the attack deck is cycled slower and Curse becomes less valuable I think.


I started with two, but I've been running with three for a while.

I should clarify it's 40+ plays, not unique scenarios.

While curse reduces damage to 0, status effects still go off. I place curse near the bottom, if not at the bottom, of the enhancement ladder.

Disarm is strong. Second only to Stun, which is so good we can't buy it.

Damage is bad, but status effects or other secondary effects can wreck your game.

Wound is also important for high shield enemies.

Pierce on high damage attacks can help one-shot many high shield/low hp enemies.

I haven't added poison to anything, but I haven't had much use for it yet. Seems like it'd be good for low damage, multiple attack heroes. Even better on high damage, multi attack heroes.

I'd still prefer strengthen over poison though. Once a character starts adding cards to their attack mod deck, I want a chance to draw one of those, or negate a null(or curse), more than I want to do +1 damage. Especially if I'm loading up on status modifiers.

I've never wanted immobilize and I can't imagine paying money for muddle, when disarm is so much better.

Bless is something I might add to healing abilities, but I place a lot more value on immediate effects on attacks.

I've bought, and am planning to buy - wound(for characters who don't have it) Disarm wherever it makes sense(multi target attacks are best), at least one Jump if a character is lacking it.

My Mindthief and unlocked class
Spoiler (click to reveal)
quartermaster
are probably going to get strengthen somewhere.

I'll probably put money into summons for some characters as well.

Sorry for the stream of consciousness.

Edit: It's possible I'm undervaluing poison. I haven't had many chance to use it.





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Jimmy Brazelton
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That's really interesting! We haven't run into status effects giving us too much of a problem so far, but it sounds like that may be an issue later on. I may have to rethink my plan to make my Mindthief curse-focused. Maybe disarm-focused instead.
 
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Cthulhu Dreams
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mournful wrote:
CthulhuDreams wrote:
feeleye wrote:

Those are my initial thoughts on enchanting. I'm curious how others feel about enchanting. Have/do you plan on enchanting as soon as possible?


The big money seems to be in adding a stun to an AoE. Adding a Stun to Dirt Cloud (the cragheart level 1 ability) would be super strong.


Can't buy Stun effects. As you say, it would be super strong.


SOrry I meant disarm. I think that is the only lowing level ApE that can have a status effect applied to it right?
 
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Luke
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CthulhuDreams wrote:
mournful wrote:
CthulhuDreams wrote:
feeleye wrote:

Those are my initial thoughts on enchanting. I'm curious how others feel about enchanting. Have/do you plan on enchanting as soon as possible?


The big money seems to be in adding a stun to an AoE. Adding a Stun to Dirt Cloud (the cragheart level 1 ability) would be super strong.


Can't buy Stun effects. As you say, it would be super strong.


SOrry I meant disarm. I think that is the only lowing level ApE that can have a status effect applied to it right?


Gotcha, yeah Disarm on Dirt Cloud. I've played a bunch of classes. I don't think this is a spoiler, but just in case.
Spoiler (click to reveal)
There are a bunch of classes with level 1 multitarget attacks that can take disarm, or other status effects.


Although, due to cost Adding Disarm to a multitarget ability is 300g on a level 1 card.

150 for disarm, x2 for multiple targets.

It's going to take awhile to get someone there.

btw, I'm starting to think poison is pretty good. Get it on a high hp enemy to gang up on him, stop him from healing too. Good on a shielded enemy as well, as it helps counteract shield. Wound still seems really good though.

 
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Luke
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Something it's important to consider, is the limitation of physical components. There are only so many stickers. Certainly not enough to give everyone a Disarm effect.

I think enhancements are going to be a key part of the endgame.
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Matt
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Are the stickers meant to be a fixed resource? Can we print others out and use them if we run out? Has Isaac said anything about this?
 
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J P
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freudianslip27 wrote:
Are the stickers meant to be a fixed resource? Can we print others out and use them if we run out? Has Isaac said anything about this?


Look in the files section. They provided all the stickers weeks ago. Just print more if you want.
 
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Luke
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DancingFool wrote:
freudianslip27 wrote:
Are the stickers meant to be a fixed resource? Can we print others out and use them if we run out? Has Isaac said anything about this?


Look in the files section. They provided all the stickers weeks ago. Just print more if you want.


I'm also curious if it's intended to be a limited resource.

Still, no reason not to print more anyway. It's a really cool part of the game.
 
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Luke
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I've reevaluated Immobilize.

It's pretty good actually.

Against melee monsters at range, it's almost as good as Disarm. Against range monsters in melee, it's a Muddle.
 
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Anon Y. Mous
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Am I missing something, or are single element enchantments a complete trap? The only advantage they have over any-element is cost, but the cost is a one-time thing and you'll always end up regretting not going for the strictly better option.
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Matt
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mournful wrote:
DancingFool wrote:
freudianslip27 wrote:
Are the stickers meant to be a fixed resource? Can we print others out and use them if we run out? Has Isaac said anything about this?


Look in the files section. They provided all the stickers weeks ago. Just print more if you want.


I'm also curious if it's intended to be a limited resource.

Still, no reason not to print more anyway. It's a really cool part of the game.


I made a new thread and asked about the enhancement stickers and Isaac popped in and clarified they are not meant to be a limited resource People are welcome to print out their own, in fact there is a file in the resources section!
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Luke
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Ethereality wrote:
Am I missing something, or are single element enchantments a complete trap? The only advantage they have over any-element is cost, but the cost is a one-time thing and you'll always end up regretting not going for the strictly better option.


You have a good point.

It made sense when I thought the stickers were limited.

As it is now, it's insane to buy a specific element. So insane I'm considering house ruling the "any element" option out of existence, just so there's a reason to use the other stickers.
 
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Matt
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The any-element sticker sure seems powerful.

Ugh in my haste to start enhancing, I missed the rule about the # of enhancements per character being limited to prosperity level lol. I bought two for one of my characters and have to pretend the sticker isn't there now! I know what my next enhancement will be for my Brute when I hit prosperity 2 lol.
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Ryan Crossan
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freudianslip27 wrote:
The any-element sticker sure seems powerful.

Ugh in my haste to start enhancing, I missed the rule about the # of enhancements per character being limited to prosperity level lol. I bought two for one of my characters and have to pretend the sticker isn't there now! I know what my next enhancement will be for my Brute when I hit prosperity 2 lol.


Minor clarification -- The number of enhanced cards is what's tied to prosperity level. As far as I understand it you could enhance a single card twice prior to reaching L2.

Whether you have the funds for such an endeavor is another matter.
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