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Sicily II» Forums » Rules

Subject: Rules Clarification: HQ Moving and Supply rss

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John Amenta

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This question came up during game play, and although we're pretty certain the rule is limited to fuel supply, thought it might be wise to double check on the forums as well.

HQ are only allowed to throw fuel supply either from the hex they start in, or the hex they finish in (not from both) per rule 12.5e.

This limitation however does not pertain to combat or does it? For example, a HQ from its starting hex throws combat supply for an Overrun during the Movement Phase. Then the HQ moves after the Overrun is complete. During the Combat phase, the HQ continues to provide combat supply for regular combat, even though it has moved.

To be more specific: rule 12.5e only applies to "fuel" supply. All other types of supply the HQ can supply from start and/or ending hex. Is this correct?

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Tankboy
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Incorrect. Combat and fuel supply are provided from the HQ before it moves or after it moves, if it's still in range to do so.
 
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John Amenta

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Fly by Night wrote:
Incorrect. Combat and fuel supply are provided from the HQ before it moves or after it moves, if it's still in range to do so.


Are you sure about this? A strict reading of the rule (which is in bold) states:

"A fueled HQ can only throw fuel from a single location each phase."

However note: "throwing fuel" seems to be a different activity from combat supply - or should both be considered the same? Is there a rule somewhere that includes combat supply as well?
 
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Antonio B-D
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Are you sure about combat supply?the rules clearly state that they apply to throw fuel.

Quote:
A fueled HQ is only allowed to throw fuel from a single location each phase. This affects a moving HQ, which must choose whether to throw fuel from its starting hex or its ending hex.
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Antonio B-D
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Tank boy I think you are not right on this.
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Myk Deans
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I agree with Antonio and John. I see nothing in the rules that prohibits an HQ from throwing supply to a combat (i.e. Overrun) from its starting location, then moving to a new location and throwing supply to another combat, whether that be another Overrun in the same Movement Phase or in a subsequent Combat Phase.

A related question is whether this 12.5e limitation is solely related to an HQ fueling units using the 1SP to fuel all independents method, 12.5c(B), or does it also apply to both 12.5c(A) and 12.5c(C) as well? The opening phrase in 12.5e in bold 'A fuelled HQ...' (per OCS v4.1) could be taken to imply only an HQ with a fuel marker, which is only placed with 12.5c(B). However, as it is in a separate paragraph, an argument can be made that it holds for any time an HQ is moved, as in order to do so it has to be fueled.

i.e. Can an HQ fuel a multi-unit formation from its starting location, pay 1T to move to a new location, then pay another 1SP to fuel a second multi-unit formation?

We've always played that 12.5e only applies to 12.5c(B), but we've always been a little unsure that we have the correct interpretation.
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Tankboy
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Interesting, it appears I stand corrected. Although, in my defense, I cannot ever recall a need for doing this.

Your HQ would still have to stay within range of a Supply Dump to draw from to throw said Combat Supply, so at most, it would move only five additional hex's. which seems entirely inefficient. I would be very interested in hearing in how you found yourself in a position that would require you to make this move.

If your Combat units are that far ahead of your supply chain (HQ Throw Range or Trucks with SP) where they cannot receive Combat Supply, than it sounds like you have an entirely different problem.
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Myk Deans
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Heh, I've been playing OCS for ~10 years, and I'm still finding little bits and pieces in the rules that I'd never noticed or considered.

One scenario I have seen is where I've been using an overrun to remove the last vestiges of surrounded enemy units (by now OoS and SPs) behind the line, using the HQ to draw and throw supply, then moving the HQ forward to support the leading elements of the advance. This can save having to spend truck MPs/rail points to ship supply close to the overrunning unit(s).

But, yeah, I'd agree that it's a rather uncommon situation.
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John Amenta

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Fly by Night wrote:
Interesting, it appears I stand corrected. Although, in my defense, I cannot ever recall a need for doing this.

Your HQ would still have to stay within range of a Supply Dump to draw from to throw said Combat Supply, so at most, it would move only five additional hex's. which seems entirely inefficient. I would be very interested in hearing in how you found yourself in a position that would require you to make this move.

If your Combat units are that far ahead of your supply chain (HQ Throw Range or Trucks with SP) where they cannot receive Combat Supply, than it sounds like you have an entirely different problem.


We just started and more in the "learning the rules" at this stage. We just finished scenario 2, so the situation probably won't come up too often if ever. It's just a rule we came across that one of us wondered if it also applied to combat. That's it. heh.

Another curious rule is Trainbusting. It effects normal movement, but oddly, leaves out supply traces completely. Strange but true.

 
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John Amenta

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mcdeans wrote:
I agree with Antonio and John. I see nothing in the rules that prohibits an HQ from throwing supply to a combat (i.e. Overrun) from its starting location, then moving to a new location and throwing supply to another combat, whether that be another Overrun in the same Movement Phase or in a subsequent Combat Phase.

A related question is whether this 12.5e limitation is solely related to an HQ fueling units using the 1SP to fuel all independents method, 12.5c(B), or does it also apply to both 12.5c(A) and 12.5c(C) as well? The opening phrase in 12.5e in bold 'A fuelled HQ...' (per OCS v4.1) could be taken to imply only an HQ with a fuel marker, which is only placed with 12.5c(B). However, as it is in a separate paragraph, an argument can be made that it holds for any time an HQ is moved, as in order to do so it has to be fueled.

i.e. Can an HQ fuel a multi-unit formation from its starting location, pay 1T to move to a new location, then pay another 1SP to fuel a second multi-unit formation?

We've always played that 12.5e only applies to 12.5c(B), but we've always been a little unsure that we have the correct interpretation.


Thanks Myk. I plan on taking a closer look at the rules you point out as well. It's an interesting nuance. Will be watching if there is any further comments on your related question here.

 
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Angela Sutton
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12.5e refers strictly to HQs with fuel markers. You pay 1 SP to place a fuel marker on an HQ. It can throw fuel to all independent units in range. If, later, you decide to move that HQ, the HQ itself will be fueled for its own move but loses its ability to fuel independent units. To remember this it is helpful to remove the fueled marker early (i.e. prior to cleanup).

Alternatively, you could move the HQ first and fuel independents in throw range from the HQ's new location. Again, it is probably a good idea not to drop the marker on the HQ until the HQ is done moving as a reminder.

Both of these are specifically for dealing with HQs using fueled markers - 12.5e does not affect any other HQ draw/throw abilities, including draw/throw for fuel costs by the 1T per unit or formation methods.

This was a rule change in 4.1 to limit the ability of a fueled HQ to run around the map and potentially fuel up a ton of independents at once.
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