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Subject: Buy and Sell to other party members. rss

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David Lockwood
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As oppose to selling to the store can you sell items you don't want to other party members?

We have a fast character who ends up with much more loot than everyone else. He tends to sell to the shop, sticking to his character's back story he wrote, but we were going to see if it was a legal play to have him sell to other characters in our group or even give items he doesn't want to other characters in the group.
 
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Ben Kyo
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Selling to the shop is the only option according to the rules.
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Justin Boehm
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The rules don't allow for it but many people have discussed it in other threads. If you wanted to house rule anything, I'd say the 2 best options I've seen are

1) to pool all loot at the end of a scenario (not gold) and priority goes to the person who picked it up, otherwise decid amongst yourselves, OR
2) my personal favorite idea to sell and buy from each other in town at 75% value, so both get a slightly better deal, and it's something a real means canary would do if they were getting rid of anything, they'd want the most lol. Of course personal quests and battle goals may interfere here, and if you chose the pooling option, the original acquirer should get credit for looting in my opinion.
 
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David Lockwood
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Hmm okay thanks for the input so far. Hopefully Issac comes in here and makes an official ruling.

I couldn't find anything in the rules other than selling to the store.
 
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David Lockwood
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Gambit001 wrote:
The rules don't allow for it but many people have discussed it in other threads. If you wanted to house rule anything, I'd say the 2 best options I've seen are

1) to pool all loot at the end of a scenario (not gold) and priority goes to the person who picked it up, otherwise decid amongst yourselves, OR
2) my personal favorite idea to sell and buy from each other in town at 75% value, so both get a slightly better deal, and it's something a real means canary would do if they were getting rid of anything, they'd want the most lol. Of course personal quests and battle goals may interfere here, and if you chose the pooling option, the original acquirer should get credit for looting in my opinion.


Man Justin you are everywhere!

Yeah we are doing some light roleplaying here (which is a blast) and he wanted to stick to the theme of his character. So him selling to us for his profit but our benefit goes hand in hand. Selling to us once we get back to town doesn't sound like it would interfere with any personal quest cards we've seen so far.
 
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Scott Yost
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There's no need for an official ruling, the rules are that you cannot do this. But it's your game and you could certainly apply one of the house rules from this thread if that would be more fun for the group.
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David Lockwood
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I don't see a ruling saying you can't, but I don't see a ruling saying that you can ONLY sell to the store as well. That is the whole reason this came up. It does sound like a ruling by omission however.
 
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toeknee n
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StormbringerGT wrote:
I don't see a ruling saying you can't, but I don't see a ruling saying that you can ONLY sell to the store as well. That is the whole reason this came up. It does sound like a ruling by omission however.


Well, there's this statement on pg. 43: "Players cannot trade money or items." Not being able to trade money or items would also prohibit selling as selling is just another form of trading.
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David Lockwood
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DoctaWho wrote:
StormbringerGT wrote:
I don't see a ruling saying you can't, but I don't see a ruling saying that you can ONLY sell to the store as well. That is the whole reason this came up. It does sound like a ruling by omission however.


Well, there's this statement on pg. 43: "Players cannot trade money or items." Not being able to trade money or items would also prohibit selling as selling is just another form of trading.


Thank you that sums it up nicely. I missed that!
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Jason Druckenmiller
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Gambit001 wrote:
The rules don't allow for it but many people have discussed it in other threads. If you wanted to house rule anything, I'd say the 2 best options I've seen are

1) to pool all loot at the end of a scenario (not gold) and priority goes to the person who picked it up, otherwise decid amongst yourselves, OR
2) my personal favorite idea to sell and buy from each other in town at 75% value, so both get a slightly better deal, and it's something a real means canary would do if they were getting rid of anything, they'd want the most lol. Of course personal quests and battle goals may interfere here, and if you chose the pooling option, the original acquirer should get credit for looting in my opinion.


The problem with #2 is that it allows for more gold to be in the economy than the game was balanced for. The intention is to sell an item, and someone else who wants it would simply buy it from the city then.

Imagine a 100g item held by player 1. 2 players both players have 100g on them. 250g value total

Intended: P1 sells item to store (50g), P2 buys item from store (100g). Player 1 now has 150g, P2 has 0 and an item that he can sell for 200g. 200g total for healthy gold sink to keep gold from pooling in the economy and devaluing any challenge in acquiring equipment.

With selling to players. P1 sells to P2. P1 now has 175g, p2 has 25g and an item he can sell for 50g to the store. 250g, no money has left the economy and thus keeps building up, trivializing items in the shop.

Now I don't know how much it will snowball, but it will throw off the intended balance. So I'd at least recommend not utilize player selling too often so as to keep the balance. And at all costs, do not sell your items before retiring.

Edited: Corrected values.
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Ian Spaulding
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Your math is off here. If you're including the sell value of items in the net worth calculations, you missed that in the initial setup:

Player 1: 100g + 50g liquid from items; Player2: 100g; Total G: 250
After buying/selling from shop: Player 1: 150g; Player2: 0g + 50g liquid from items; Total G: 200.
After buying/selling between them: Player 1: 150g; Player2: 50g + 50g liquid items; Total G: 250

Players trading basically keeps the cash constant within the group whereas interacting with the shop means some money leaks out as shopkeepers take their cut.

My 2G is that this is likely not enough to influence game balance, since Player 2 could have been able to pick up the item as Player 1. The only difference would be whether some characters are more balanced to picking up loot and are meant to gather more gold to unlock better/more equipment faster as an overall character balancing mechanism, but that seems dubious to me.

I think the bigger problem is preventing gold from pooling so that players don't combine gold to buy things that are more expensive than what they could afford otherwise, and also higher play count games gathering more gold cumulatively. There is still some variance here but imposing a cost to shifting gold around like this should help normalize the progression.
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Ben Kyo
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pneuma08 wrote:
My 2G is that this is likely not enough to influence game balance, since Player 2 could have been able to pick up the item as Player 1. The only difference would be whether some characters are more balanced to picking up loot and are meant to gather more gold to unlock better/more equipment faster as an overall character balancing mechanism, but that seems dubious to me.

Why?

It seems pretty obvious to me that a faster character with better/more loot cards is intended to get more of the loot. Further, it is quite likely that player 2 could not have picked up the item as easily as player 1, or at all, depending on a lot of different factors.
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Jason Druckenmiller
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pneuma08 wrote:
Your math is off here. If you're including the sell value of items in the net worth calculations, you missed that in the initial setup:

Player 1: 100g + 50g liquid from items; Player2: 100g; Total G: 250
After buying/selling from shop: Player 1: 150g; Player2: 0g + 50g liquid from items; Total G: 200.
After buying/selling between them: Player 1: 150g; Player2: 50g + 50g liquid items; Total G: 250

Players trading basically keeps the cash constant within the group whereas interacting with the shop means some money leaks out as shopkeepers take their cut.

My 2G is that this is likely not enough to influence game balance, since Player 2 could have been able to pick up the item as Player 1. The only difference would be whether some characters are more balanced to picking up loot and are meant to gather more gold to unlock better/more equipment faster as an overall character balancing mechanism, but that seems dubious to me.

I think the bigger problem is preventing gold from pooling so that players don't combine gold to buy things that are more expensive than what they could afford otherwise, and also higher play count games gathering more gold cumulatively. There is still some variance here but imposing a cost to shifting gold around like this should help normalize the progression.


Yea, still the point remains the same, and there is 50 more gold injected in the system than was intended. If you sell one item per character retirement yea it's not a big deal. If you're selling an item between player every scenario than it's definitely going to snowball into a vastly inflated economy.
 
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Nicole Hatch
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I can think of 2 personal goal cards this would directly affect.
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Achim Zien
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Gambit001 wrote:
… a real means canary …


I just like to think of my characters as "real means canaries", too. They got all the real means.

(Phone keyboard, I guess; just thought it's funny.)
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