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Subject: RSP Moderation Is Broken rss

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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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I think the latest banning of Drew makes it clear that RSP moderation is broken. Of the six currently banned, Drew at least, and possibly more, were victims of the way the discussions there escalate from uncivil and antagonistic posts and then only the person who retaliated is punished. Yet, the low level swamp continues to churn against people, escalating animosity and causing toxicity.

The current moderation policy does not define what levels of toxicity are verboten, so when people are dismissed, patronized, ad hominem'd and ridiculed it is unclear just how much you can defend yourself. This has created an atmosphere where certain demographics are feeling persecuted when they seem to get moderated more than other demographics.

In addition, a majority group has more power (from numbers) to get a minority person banned because their cries for moderation are louder, even if a person from both groups commits equal crimes. Even if moderation isn't intentionally biased, this makes it systemically biased.

I know it's hard to believe, but RSP as a result is more dysfunctional than ever. I think any of these following three options are better than what is happening now:

1) Enforce BGG forum standards on RSP. No more "mostly unmoderated" with unclear, unstated standards. I will gladly Red-X posts I think actually break a rule. I don't now because I have no idea what is bad or what is good. People in RSP attempt to project their own standards on each other, but it has dubious value.
2) Go back to Unmoderated. Only ban when people are actually in the realm of Hate speech, are doxxing or threaten physical violence. Again, with those rules I would happily red-x people accurately.
3) Destroy RSP. If full-moderation is too resource intensive and no-moderation too much of a liability, the usefulness of RSP has little value when compared to the actual purpose of BGG. I see there is another thread calling for this option.

Unfortunately RSP is losing the ability to have debate of differing opinions because low-level trolls are provoking others into behavior that gets subjective permanent bans applied to them.
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that Matt
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Burn it to the ground, plow it under, sow the earth with salt.
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True Blue Jon
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BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.
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Rich Keiser
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tumorous wrote:
Burn it to the ground, plow it under, sow the earth with salt.


Package it as a health supplement?

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Paul W
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I'd favor option 2. I like the more moderated RSP, but there needs to be a commitment to even-handed moderation, and Octavian has refused to provide that. I'd trust a team of community members to do the moderation, but I have zero faith in Octavian's ability to manage the forum justly.
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Trey Chambers
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quozl wrote:
BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.


How does one find the group?
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Rich Keiser
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TheChin! wrote:
... because low-level trolls .
 
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Mutton Chops
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quozl wrote:
BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.


If I were BGG, I would be interested in keeping it, if for no other reason than as a dumping ground for threads in other forums that stray into sensitive territory. If you don't have somewhere to put them, where people can drain their bile, they will keep such discussions cluttering up the other forums. Locking threads doesn't help.
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Boaty McBoatface
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What have I been missing? Is this more of the Toxicity complaints?

Here is a clue.

I disagree with those of you who think there is a conspiracy or double standard, and maybe if RSP had shown the same level of self enforcement towards those who made rape threats (or defended such comments) or who just deliberately trolled the forum for a laugh has had self moderated me maybe this would not have happened.

Moreover some of those banned had been among those whose blocks (and the campaign to reinstate them) had caused RSP to be light touch moderation in the first place.

I am thus going to suggest that the combined factors of increased nastiness towards women and homosexuals, the inability of the forum to self moderate when it actually mattered, and the fact that those who said it could self moderate were among the worst offenders is the reason for this.

It is really not that hard to figure out, nor how to avoid a ban.

But maybe (to extend his point) quozl makes A valid point, Octavian is sick of RSP. It was created as a favour and those it was created for have just taken the right royal piss. Maybe RSP old guard need to understand that if you crap in someones mouth they are not going to be nice to you.

As to what should be done, a number of users (yes DW I am looking at you) try and push the envelope of what is allowed if there are hard an fast rules. A hard and fast rule just means a loop hole for those who have that mindset. I dislike it, but I can see Octavians reasoning. If you do not know how far you can push it, you will break well before you overstep any mark.
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Bryan Thunkd
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mutton_chops wrote:
quozl wrote:
BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.


If I were BGG, I would be interested in keeping it, if for no other reason than as a dumping ground for threads in other forums that stray into sensitive territory. If you don't have somewhere to put them, where people can drain their bile, they will keep such discussions cluttering up the other forums. Locking threads doesn't help.
If I were BGG, I wouldn't be interested in keeping it, if for no other reason than we could finally establish that bile isn't allowed anywhere on BGG.

If you wanna be a jerk, that's fine, just do it somewhere besides BGG.
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Pete
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You realize you're effectively complaining to a homeowner that the contents of his garbage are disorganized...

Pete (calls it like it is)
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Boaty McBoatface
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Thunkd wrote:
mutton_chops wrote:
quozl wrote:
BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.


If I were BGG, I would be interested in keeping it, if for no other reason than as a dumping ground for threads in other forums that stray into sensitive territory. If you don't have somewhere to put them, where people can drain their bile, they will keep such discussions cluttering up the other forums. Locking threads doesn't help.
If I were BGG, I wouldn't be interested in keeping it, if for no other reason than then we could establish that bile isn't allowed anywhere on BGG.

If you wanna be a jerk, that's fine, just do it somewhere besides BGG.
I said just that when light touch moderation was first mooted, I also said (yes I am going to say I told you so) that those who called for it would be the ones who would break it through unacceptable behavior.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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slatersteven wrote:
As to what should be done, a number of users (yes DW I am looking at you) try and push the envelope of what is allowed if there are hard an fast rules. A hard and fast rule just means a loop hole for those who have that mindset. I dislike it, but I can see Octavians reasoning. If you do not know how far you can push it, you will break well before you overstep any mark.
I've never bought into this because it is clear when someone is trying to game the rules. It becomes what creates the best for most. I posit that the number of people punished and the amount of animosity generated in the current environment would be much more reduced by clear rules than any increase in line gaming by trolls. Having said that, my personal preference is no rules or RSP destruction first, then real rules as a last resort. Just because the nature of RSP and its subject matter naturally creates heated conversation.
 
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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plezercruz wrote:
You realize you're effectively complaining to a homeowner that the contents of his garbage are disorganized...

Pete (calls it like it is)
Which is why I included Option 3 at all.
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that Matt
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plezercruz wrote:
You realize you're effectively complaining to a homeowner that the contents of his garbage are disorganized...

We should just start hauling the garbage off our property entirely, rather than dragging it to the farthest corner of the yard and throwing a tarp over it.
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True Blue Jon
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Shampoo4you wrote:
quozl wrote:
BGG isn't interested in keeping RSP around. Join Facebook RSP instead.


How does one find the group?


Geekmail me.
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Pete
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TheChin! wrote:
plezercruz wrote:
You realize you're effectively complaining to a homeowner that the contents of his garbage are disorganized...

Pete (calls it like it is)
Which is why I included Option 3 at all.
You should have included Option 4: Do nothing because it doesn't matter anyway.

Pete (thinks option 3 doesn't work because you need a garbage receptacle somewhere on your property)
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Boaty McBoatface
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TheChin! wrote:
slatersteven wrote:
As to what should be done, a number of users (yes DW I am looking at you) try and push the envelope of what is allowed if there are hard an fast rules. A hard and fast rule just means a loop hole for those who have that mindset. I dislike it, but I can see Octavians reasoning. If you do not know how far you can push it, you will break well before you overstep any mark.
I've never bought into this because it is clear when someone is trying to game the rules. It becomes what creates the best for most. I posit that the number of people punished and the amount of animosity generated in the current environment would be much more reduced by clear rules than any increase in line gaming by trolls. Having said that, my personal preference is no rules or RSP destruction first, then real rules as a last resort. Just because the nature of RSP and its subject matter naturally creates heated conversation.
And I was here when we had full moderation, and it did not stop it. In fact it had just the effect that people are now saying happened to conservative posters. The clever users would game the system to provoke reactions (I know it happened to me).

And no rules means rape apologists making women uncomfortable, not just here. How do you think a female game will feel attending a Con with people who think that getting them paralytic and then fucking them behind a bicycle shed is big, clever funny or a valid seduction technique? I am going to suggest more users have been lost to RSP becasue of the toxicity then have been blocked.

We can have heated debate and still not deliberately try and cause offense.
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Born To Lose, Live To Win
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slatersteven wrote:
And I was here when we had full moderation, and it did not stop it. In fact it had just the effect that people are now saying happened to conservative posters. The clever users would game the system to provoke reactions (I know it happened to me).
To me this is like the libertarian argument against the current government system. Just because it was/is not implemented correctly doesn't mean it can't be.
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Matthew M
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RSP Moderation is working exactly as advertised:

Quote:
Starting immediately, any user determined at my sole discretion to be engaging in toxic forum behavior will be banned from RSP.


If you do not care for those rules then do not participate in RSP.

Thanks.

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