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Catan: Cities & Knights» Forums » General

Subject: New Official Rule rss

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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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St Catharines
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Information from http://www.gamefest.com/news/news_detail/433_0_4_0_C/ :

When playing with the Cities & Knights expansion, the Robber cannot be moved at all until the barbarians reach Catan for the first time. When a 7 is rolled, players only check to make sure that nobody has too many cards in hand. The Robber stays put and no card is stolen. The Robber is also unaffected by any cards or Knights. This counts for the Pirate Ship as well, should it also be used in the game.
 
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Geert VG
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Leuven
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Re:New Official Rule
mlvanbie wrote:
Information from http://www.gamefest.com/news/news_detail/433_0_4_0_C/ :

When playing with the Cities & Knights expansion, the Robber cannot be moved at all until the barbarians reach Catan for the first time. When a 7 is rolled, players only check to make sure that nobody has too many cards in hand. The Robber stays put and no card is stolen. The Robber is also unaffected by any cards or Knights. This counts for the Pirate Ship as well, should it also be used in the game.



Can anyone tell me why this would result in a better game? It seems to me this rule would take the game down to a lower level...
 
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David Me
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Bowling Green
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Re:New Official Rule
garion (#28051),

My guess would be that it's too likely that both the robbers and the barbarians could unfairly handicap a player during the early game through bad luck alone. Losing through bad luck happens, but it should usually be minimized in strategy games.
 
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Geert VG
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Leuven
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Re:New Official Rule
davidme (#28090),

Indeed, there could be a small chance (and I say 'small', because smart placement of your village an city will reduce this chance enormously) one or more players are unable to build an active knight before the barbarians arrive.
So, to make absolutely sure there will be no player unable to do this, why not introducing a little, more gentle rule that is not as rude as the rediculous adjustment mentioned on the official site? We usually play the game like this: when a 7 is rolled during the first round, nothing happens. After this first round, everything is possible...
This way, when all or most tiles are used, only very (and I mean extremely, unexcusable) bad placement will result in not being able to build and activate a knight, even during the first round. Don't forget, before the first round begins you already receive resources from your village (original rules, duth version) ànd your city (additional rules, dutch version). So every player will usually have 5 or 6 cards resources at the beginning of the game.
To my experience, 9 out of 10 times, there will be no problem when the game is played this way...
I'm still convinced the new official rule is unnecessary and useless...
 
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David Me
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Bowling Green
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Re:New Official Rule
garion (#28099),

Recently it seems an even more drastic fix is necessary, as the game drags on far too long in too many games (6 hours!). I don't know what the fix should be, maybe make the first barbarisn trip a mere "scouting" run that does no harm. That's off the cuff, no guarantees as to it's usefulness, but I'm pretty sure SOMETHING needs to be done.
 
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Teis Jacobsen
Denmark
København K
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Re:New Official Rule
davidme (#51421),

I have played about 200 games of Cities and Knights, and I have never experienced a game that lasted 6 hours.......
 
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Mark Vogel
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Red Deer
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I had a game of C+K take nearly that long once. It was our first game and we didn't realize that you are to start with a settlement AND a city. I have a feeling this is what David is doing wrong.
 
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Dave Eisen
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My only game went 5.5 hours and I'm in no hurry to play another one. Although I do think we played a rule or two wrong that slowed the game down a little.
 
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Robert Birks
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I've probably played 20 or more C& K games, and our group (which is notoriously slow compared to other groups descriptions on BGG) would never have gone beyond 3 hours, and usually a lot quicker. I can't even comprehend how you could take 6 hours if you are playing the game properly. I suppose if you rolled lots and lots of 7's really early and everyone lost cities etc etc it might drag out, but this hasn't ever happend to us.

The average time to barbarian landing is 14 turns. In that time, most players should be able to get an activated knight. Even if not every player has, in our games, it's common that one player will try for the victory point and have 2 knights going to help with defense.
 
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Jimmer Sivertsen
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Bad rolls and a robber on your better number can be a crippler. Especially in a 6-player game. Hypothetically, going last sets you up from losing your rock/sheep/grain to a robber to a 7, and you might get locked down.

It's possible that you don't even see your second turn before the barbarians hit. Going last is a fair advantage for city placement, but it can be a death knell for barbarians combined with an early robber.

(Before finding this rule, we were forced to use house rules - basically ignoring the barbarian roll for the first round.)
 
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Jon Ivar T.
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varelse234 wrote:
I had a game of C+K take nearly that long once. It was our first game and we didn't realize that you are to start with a settlement AND a city. I have a feeling this is what David is doing wrong.


I have been playtesting the game starting with only settlements. It sure makes the game longer (but I like that).
Playing with this the rule follows that you cannot build knights (if you can use the term "build" about knights) before you build a city, but you can build a knight in the same turn that you built a city.
Also the event die is not rolled before the first city is built.

I enjoy this, but have never used it in a real game.


In friendly games of C&K we usually use this house rule:
After placing one settlement (clockwise) and one city (counterclockwise) on the board we continue to place one active knight on the table.
This will most of the time cause the first barbarian attack to result in a draw between the players, and each player gets one progress card...
This way we prevent a player from loosing a city in one of the first rounds...
A less easy version would be to place one inactive knight instead...
(This replaces the "easy-start variant" in the original rules)
 
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