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Subject: 11th Annual Golden Geek Awards - Nominees Announced for 2016 - Vote Now! rss

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Joakim Schön
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Don't like the method that White Wizard Games is doing, giving out prizes to people that vote for Hero Realms.
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Chris Farrell
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Another advantage of a much smaller field - no more than 5 nominees per category - is that I could hope to fill out an informed ballot. If I wanted to be usefully involved in the process, I could just play the games I'm missing; it would possibly be doable. With so many nominees per category, for me to vote in even just a couple categories with a full, or even just close to full, set of information is literally impossible. I'm ranking tons of games N/A and that's clearly going to be factually incorrect in many cases - I just can't possibly play everything in the time available, or ever.
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Joakim Schön
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cfarrell wrote:
Another advantage of a much smaller field - no more than 5 nominees per category - is that I could hope to fill out an informed ballot.


No, it feels good with 15, because there is so many good games out there.

I don't think the idea is that a users gonna vote for all the games, rank all games in a category 1-15. We, on the site, vote together, on the games we have played among the nominated.
 
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Love Silver Bayonet: The First Team in Vietnam, 1965 (25th Anniversary Edition)

Hope it wins, especially with the recent passing of Lt Gen Hal Moore.
 
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For your consideration:

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/62795/campaign-trail

and

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/62836/still-campaign-...

and, finally,

https://www.boardgamegeek.com/blogpost/62900

(Guilds of London)

#satire
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cfarrell wrote:
I didn't realize how comparatively complex the evaluation for this Schulze method they use to evaluate the winners is. Can someone explain, in simple, clear language, the advantages of this over the simpler and more comprehensible instant-runoff evaluation (one where you just drop lowest-ranked candidates and re-allocate the votes until someone gets >50%)?

Chris, I'd love to hear why the award organizers use the Schulze method. I don't think the Single Transferable Vote method (the alternative you cite) is always the best option, but I think it's the perfect system for the Golden Geeks: the electorate consists of a large number of voters, with widely different tastes, who might be tempted to artificially lower their ranking of one game to help the chances of another. And, as you point out, the Schulze method is almost impossible to fully understand, which is another reason not to use it. There may be very compelling reasons for using the method they do, and if so, I'd really like to hear them.
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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matthean wrote:
Scythe is innovative?


Well yes of course it is! It has unit movement, area control, resource gathering, and no player elimination!
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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crparis wrote:
The fact that Codex: Card-Time Strategy didn't get considered for the 2 Player category is a sad and significant omission. I've been in the hobby a long time (one of the first 200 members of BGG, a long time member of Spielfrieks, and an avid reader of The Games Cabinet even before that) and can make a very strong case that Codex is better than most of the nominees.

Truly, a missed opportunity by The Geek for not giving this one a closer look.

shake



Someone already answered but I just wanted to second that this is just a result of a perceived slight that some people will just never drop or let go of. Sirlin designs great games he is probably one of the best (at least top 5) 2 player game designers but will never get enough respect on BGG.
 
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Rindel wrote:
Shame The Dresden Files Cooperative Card Game didn't get nominated for anything, the artworks excellent and I find the gameplay innovative.


I think it will be considered a 2017 release?
 
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Michael Off The Shelf Board Game Reviews
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joakim589 wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
$225 is 25 dollars less than a PS4.


Oh. Really expansive. Good there is a undeluxe Core Set if someone want this game.


Starter set was $20 I believe, and the $65 set was a perfect starting point to get into the game.
 
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doonzer wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
LewZephyr wrote:
Really surprised that Dice Tower was not in the list of Podcasts.
They won already so can't win again.


I was also wondering about this. Once you've won, you cant reappear on the list?


 
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cfarrell wrote:
I didn't realize how comparatively complex the evaluation for this Schulze method they use to evaluate the winners is. Can someone explain, in simple, clear language, the advantages of this over the simpler and more comprehensible instant-runoff evaluation (one where you just drop lowest-ranked candidates and re-allocate the votes until someone gets >50%)?

All these different voting systems reward different things - in fields with large numbers of candidates, the various ranked-preference systems tend to reward whatever has the best reach (Splendor, Codenames). I tend to think that ranked-preferences fails when you've got somewhere north of 5 candidates many of which are competitive - people just aren't discerning enough to sensibly rank 10 - never mind 15 - games (if you ask them again in a week or a month, you'll get a different result even though the underlying preferences probably haven't changed). On the other end, I personally went through the voting and could only really vote for 2-3 in each category just because that's all I had played, or anything beyond that I couldn't possibly endorse as a potential winner. If the average voter is only voting for 3-5 games in a 15 game field, that's gotta be kind of messing things up too.

I like preference ranking for solving the problem of dealing with small numbers of fairly distinct politicians or political parties in winner-take-all elections. But I have to wonder if it's effective when you've got all these overlapping categories (several of which voters clearly don't understand the criterion for at all) with mostly broadly similar games and a voter base with a broadly similar set of preferences, so you're trying to draw distinctions at a resolution that simply doesn't exist.

So, for example, in the GotY category, figure out which of the broadly similar Terraforming Mars, The Colonists, and A Feat for Odin has the most support, and strike the other two. Do the same thing for Scythe, Inis, and Star Wars Rebellion (not perfect, but close enough). If you could winnow the lists down to just 5 really distinct nominees (which is plenty) it would make this whole process a lot more interesting. If you want to be purely automated, you could do something with BGG rating correlations to winnow the field when games have a very high ratings correlation.

I think something needs to change. It just really feels like a scattershot mess right now.


Your post is a good question, and I might not have all the answers you seek. But my number one reason for using this method is to avoid the problem of having to rank everything from 1 to X.

I participate in another award selection which has me rank games in priority (and I dislike it). A lot of cases I don't want to put one game above another and this method solves that for me. I can say X > Y > Z=Z=Z=Z. Also, I know people tend to "hate" vote just because they don't like something - and I disagree with that thought process when voting for the best of something.

Anyway I think it works pretty well - the results of the Golden Geeks are some of the best games ever made, and I appreciate all the people who take the time to nominate and vote.

I also enjoy a large pool of nominees - there's 2000ish games per year coming out now and if something garners enough attention to make the top 15 nominees than that alone is a winner in my book.
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Stephen Miller
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Query - If you're having podcast for Board and RPG, why not podcast for Video Game?
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Stephen Miller
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Aldie wrote:
cfarrell wrote:
I didn't realize how comparatively complex the evaluation for this Schulze method they use to evaluate the winners is. Can someone explain, in simple, clear language, the advantages of this over the simpler and more comprehensible instant-runoff evaluation (one where you just drop lowest-ranked candidates and re-allocate the votes until someone gets >50%)?

All these different voting systems reward different things - in fields with large numbers of candidates, the various ranked-preference systems tend to reward whatever has the best reach (Splendor, Codenames). I tend to think that ranked-preferences fails when you've got somewhere north of 5 candidates many of which are competitive - people just aren't discerning enough to sensibly rank 10 - never mind 15 - games (if you ask them again in a week or a month, you'll get a different result even though the underlying preferences probably haven't changed). On the other end, I personally went through the voting and could only really vote for 2-3 in each category just because that's all I had played, or anything beyond that I couldn't possibly endorse as a potential winner. If the average voter is only voting for 3-5 games in a 15 game field, that's gotta be kind of messing things up too.

I like preference ranking for solving the problem of dealing with small numbers of fairly distinct politicians or political parties in winner-take-all elections. But I have to wonder if it's effective when you've got all these overlapping categories (several of which voters clearly don't understand the criterion for at all) with mostly broadly similar games and a voter base with a broadly similar set of preferences, so you're trying to draw distinctions at a resolution that simply doesn't exist.

So, for example, in the GotY category, figure out which of the broadly similar Terraforming Mars, The Colonists, and A Feat for Odin has the most support, and strike the other two. Do the same thing for Scythe, Inis, and Star Wars Rebellion (not perfect, but close enough). If you could winnow the lists down to just 5 really distinct nominees (which is plenty) it would make this whole process a lot more interesting. If you want to be purely automated, you could do something with BGG rating correlations to winnow the field when games have a very high ratings correlation.

I think something needs to change. It just really feels like a scattershot mess right now.


Your post is a good question, and I might not have all the answers you seek. But my number one reason for using this method is to avoid the problem of having to rank everything from 1 to X.

I participate in another award selection which has me rank games in priority (and I dislike it). A lot of cases I don't want to put one game above another and this method solves that for me. I can say X > Y > Z=Z=Z=Z. Also, I know people tend to "hate" vote just because they don't like something - and I disagree with that thought process when voting for the best of something.

Anyway I think it works pretty well - the results of the Golden Geeks are some of the best games ever made, and I appreciate all the people who take the time to nominate and vote.

I also enjoy a large pool of nominees - there's 2000ish games per year coming out now and if something garners enough attention to make the top 15 nominees than that alone is a winner in my book.


My only issue with the Schulz method is how it handles no vote vs 15th. Last year had an issue where people seemed surprised that saying something was 15th ranked it higher than things that they didn't vote for, causing them to accidentally vote something higher than they intended. Now, that's not actually a problem (And makes more sense for a ranking system than arbitrarily giving a numerical that's higher than any active vote - less instances of that causing a problem), but the lack of making it clear in the voting procedure (instead needing to actually know how Schulz handles no vote vs low vote - that any numeric value is above any N/A, iirc) is, in my opinion, since it risks corrupting the voting process due to voters being uninformed on how the votes are tallied - While the information is readily available, it isn't obvious in the voting booth itself.
 
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Greg Lorrimer
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cfarrell wrote:

All these different voting systems reward different things - ....

I like preference ranking for solving the problem of dealing with small numbers of fairly distinct politicians or political parties in winner-take-all elections. .....


Coincidentally, Kenneth Arrow has just recently died. He's the fellow who proved that voting systems can't be representative in any meaningful sense for any vote for more than two alternatives scuppering any kind of democracy (as even the two candidates in a two party system aren't really two). It may also be the reason that Pope Benedict XVI reversed Pope JPII's papal voting change which permitted a 50%+1 vote if things were going on too long, back to 66%+1.



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Anthony
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Gizensha wrote:
Query - If you're having podcast for Board and RPG, why not podcast for Video Game?


Would make more sense for us to do that over at VGG. We've talked about it but people have been somewhat lazy about it, sadly.
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Stuart Detsky
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Continuing to pile on more questions about nominees: although I really like Rich Sommer's Cardboard as a podcast, there hasn't been a new episode since 2015. Not sure how it can qualify as a nominee for a 2016 award.
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Stephen Miller
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sdetsky wrote:
Continuing to pile on more questions about nominees: although I really like Rich Sommer's Cardboard as a podcast, there hasn't been a new episode since 2015. Not sure how it can qualify as a nominee for a 2016 award.


You missed the revival - It's on a different stream and the podcast name is almost ungoogleable, so that's easily done: http://www.spreaker.com/show/cardboard-s-show

He's turned it into a live radio format, complete with call ins.
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Bartosz Chlebicki
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joakim589 wrote:
clydeiii wrote:
So just to be clear, if you wanna hate vote, leave it at NA.


Correct.


No, it's not correct. Schulze method (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schulze_method) is all about pairing all games. If you leave N/A then that game is not paired to any and thus you leave it with no harm and no profit. If you want to hate vote you have rank the game any number that will be lower than all of other rated games. If you rank Scythe 2 and all other games 1 then it's the same loss for Scythe as being number 15 while others 1-14.

To be clear. No matter what's the difference, the game being lower loses one point in pair with the game being higher. The game N/A loses nothing.

Now a funny example:
Let's say noone played Scythe and so noone rated it. If I'm the only person to rate Scythe and I rate it 1 and all other games lower, then Scythe wins all the pairs by 1 vote and wins the award ;)

EDIT:
Sorry, everything wrote above is not true. I found what I was missing. N/A is the hate vote as far as all other games have a rating.
One notice though. It does not matter whether you leave the worst game with N/A or the last rating 15 (as long as all other are rated higher), the result will be the same.
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Bartosz Chlebicki
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Does sombedy know when the awards will be announced?
 
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Joakim Schön
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Anyday soon. Tomorrow maybe.
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Chris
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Are the results of the voting available, now that the winners are announced?
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