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Subject: 7Springs minimum stay requirement rss

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Marty Sample
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This is standard. When the room block first opened up, it was for stays of 7 days or longer. After a set amount of time the room block reservations were opened up for stays of 4 days or longer; as of Feb 15th according to the latest update from Don.

https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/1727416/bpa-february-news

In the newsletter, he mentioned there are anywhere from 40 to 90 rooms at the main hotel still left. Since the second weekend is the most crowded, I'd wager that 40 number is for the second weekend.

Here is the reservation policy:

http://www.boardgamers.org/wbclodging_7S.html

For stays shorter than 4 nights, you need to wait til May 15th. IF there are any rooms left for the second weekend, you can book then. I would not be surprised if they sell out by then. There is plenty of room at the nearby condos. And if you're with a group, that might be cheaper on a per night basis as well.
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Marty Sample
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If you think you might bail I'd go condo. I think the cancellation penalty is less onerous than booking at the hotel.
 
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Marty S wrote:
If you think you might bail I'd go condo. I think the cancellation penalty is less onerous than booking at the hotel.


My understanding that is a 14 day notice full cancellation notice for the hotel.

Does the con group block rate modify that assumption?

From my reading of the ruleset, the condos were one month, so more stringent.

Now that isn't discussing the penalty if you cancel too late, just the go/no-go way points.

My issue is the group members haven't decided, but rezs must be made.

Fortunately, we had a breakthru a few minutes ago, so many problems self-solved.

 
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Andrew Drummond
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darthhugo wrote:
Marty S wrote:
If you think you might bail I'd go condo. I think the cancellation penalty is less onerous than booking at the hotel.


My understanding that is a 14 day notice full cancellation notice for the hotel.

Does the con group block rate modify that assumption?

From my reading of the ruleset, the condos were one month, so more stringent.

Now that isn't discussing the penalty if you cancel too late, just the go/no-go way points.

My issue is the group members haven't decided, but rezs must be made.

Fortunately, we had a breakthru a few minutes ago, so many problems self-solved.




I believe that for the hotel 1 nights stay is forfeit with any cancellation. It also requires a 50% deposit up front which is more onerous than the condos as well.
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Marty Sample
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I thought the con block rate overrode their normal cancellation policies; Don has been pretty vocal in instituting pretty strict ones in light of all the cancellations they've had in the past when groups make speculative reservations, then as the con approaches finalize things, consolidate rooms etc and then bail out at the proverbial last minute.

I am not 100% sure in this regard. The WBC Facebook group page is much more active you might get a more definitive response there?
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    This has become complicated.
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Carmen Petruzzelli
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darthhugo wrote:
For clarity:

DEPOSITS & CANCELLATIONS: A nonrefundable deposit of 50% of the total lodging cost per room (or 25% of total lodging cost per condo/townhouse/chalet/cabin is required. Reservations cancelled 60 days or more in advance of arrival date will forfeit one night of the advance deposit amount. Reservations cancelled within 60 days of arrival date will forfeit the entire deposit. Reservations cannot be transferred to another party other than those initially named on the reservation. Any cancelled room will be returned to availability and subject to claim by the next party on the waiting list. This policy is designed to prevent early sellouts by those reserving rooms on speculation. While one person is responsible for the deposit payment, it is highly recommended that all occupants be named on the reservation so that in the event of one person having to cancel, other members of the reservation can assume credit and responsibility for that reservation without it being released back to the waiting list for general resale.


This is precisely how it was explained to me by the helpful 7S staff member when I booked this week.
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Kevin C.
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Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin
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natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.

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Sagrilarus wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.



To be fair, they do pare down the bookable day requirement as the con gets closer. I think the two day min rez hits in May. And this is a ten day convention, so they need to stretch bookings out a much wider window than the four day GenCon spectacular, therefore the long-haul attendees are the primary market. The walk-ons are important, but they could never sustain a ten day event.

This does make sense, because attendees were playing speculative booking in the early part of the game, then dumping/releasing reservations at a later point. In that window, potential con attendees may have decided to not attend due to lack of vacancy, thus reducing the numbers of attendees and annoying the venue with lowered room bookings.

As I suggested, once the con reaches a popularity at the new venue, these issues will subside, but until then, these policies make perfect sense for the sustainability of the con at the new location.

I understand the annoyance factor of this, but it is a business that wants to sustain itself.

At least it isn't GenCon levels of concern, where bookings evaporate in hours. It has been months since the rooms hit the market for 7 Springs.

 
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    It makes sense financially for the place hosting the event, but it doesn't make sense for someone that is looking to attend for a couple of days. I may be able to find a Motel 6 nearby. That would be the alternative.

    The big conventions aren't designed to attract more casual gamers for shorter stints. It's why my group throws its own mini-con every year now. I just can't imagine gaming for ten straight days, or even five. With a non-gaming family, it simply can't happen.
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Sagrilarus wrote:
    It makes sense financially for the place hosting the event, but it doesn't make sense for someone that is looking to attend for a couple of days. I may be able to find a Motel 6 nearby. That would be the alternative.

    The big conventions aren't designed to attract more casual gamers for shorter stints. It's why my group throws its own mini-con every year now. I just can't imagine gaming for ten straight days, or even five. With a non-gaming family, it simply can't happen.


I understand your points, and yes, a ten day event is not for the casual goer.

With that said, my friend has booked a hotel in Somerset that has a cancellation policy 24 hours up to start of check-in, so I'm thinking for the casual attendee that this would be your primary booking, and then as the con gets closer, check back in with the 7 Springs (after the 60 day go/no-go date and the 2 day min booking), to see if there are rooms available.

Also, there are going to be several "anyone want to split a condo/chalet" requests popping up, so perhaps you can slide into one of those situations.

I guess my follow-up question to the wbc regulars is...

Is there a wbc forum/board where housing details and space availability information (anyone want to split a X) is posted - like the GenCon boards?

Excuse me for my ignorance of not doing the legwork, but I did exhaust my "how does this thing work" energy quota when trying to get my bearings for the con, the format, the hotel, etc.

In short, this was almost as complex as figuring out Math Trades for the first time.

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There is also Donegal, which is a few miles closer.
 
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Marty Sample
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Sagrilarus wrote:
    It makes sense financially for the place hosting the event, but it doesn't make sense for someone that is looking to attend for a couple of days. I may be able to find a Motel 6 nearby. That would be the alternative.

    The big conventions aren't designed to attract more casual gamers for shorter stints. It's why my group throws its own mini-con every year now. I just can't imagine gaming for ten straight days, or even five. With a non-gaming family, it simply can't happen.


There are several cheap hotels just off the PA turnpike, about 20-30 mins away.
 
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Marty Sample
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darthhugo wrote:


Also, there are going to be several "anyone want to split a condo/chalet" requests popping up, so perhaps you can slide into one of those situations.

I guess my follow-up question to the wbc regulars is...

Is there a wbc forum/board where housing details and space availability information (anyone want to split a X) is posted - like the GenCon boards?



That is admittedly a shortfall in that there is no one central repository like the GenCon forums. Facebook is probably the most active for that sort of thing, followed by here or Consimworld.
 
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There are also a few B&Bs in the area, like the one I'm staying in for the length of the con. If you have access to a vehicle for the time you'll be there, it is very easy to stay slightly offsite (and the nearest Motel 6 is not all that close...)
 
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Marty S wrote:
darthhugo wrote:


Also, there are going to be several "anyone want to split a condo/chalet" requests popping up, so perhaps you can slide into one of those situations.

I guess my follow-up question to the wbc regulars is...

Is there a wbc forum/board where housing details and space availability information (anyone want to split a X) is posted - like the GenCon boards?



That is admittedly a shortfall in that there is no one central repository like the GenCon forums. Facebook is probably the most active for that sort of thing, followed by here or Consimworld.


Thanks.

 
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Kaarin Engelmann
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I believe the current "complicated" requirements are something BPA asked for and not how Seven Springs normally deals with reservations. We get pinged if we don't meet our room block guarantees. Without the reservation rules, lots of our members "game" the system, make reservations and then decide later to cancel, which deprives people who need rooms of the opportunity to make reservations and is a financial liability for the organization--punishing everybody.

Regardless, someone who wants to come last minute can check with the hotel to see if rooms have become available. That person can also post the need and someone may be willing to share. In addition, there are nearby hotels. Furthermore, it's not like the circumstances are different at Seven Springs than for the Host or our previous venues. Everything is always "sold out" ahead of time. If you decide last minute to attend, you roll the dice and take what you can find.
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In terms of trying to find people to share rooms with, you have many options:

* Advertise what you are offering or need here in the BGG forum.

* If you are a Twitter person, post with a #bpa_wbc tag.

* Use the WBC Facebook group at https://www.facebook.com/groups/2381468400/

* Use the Consimworld forum at http://talk.consimworld.com/WebX/?14@@.1dd15816

* Use the tried and true logistics page, which was at http://boardgamers.org/wbc16/prereg.htm last year and should be at http://boardgamers.org/wbc17/prereg.html this year.

These methods are typically successful.

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Steve Bachman
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Sagrilarus wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.


So it isn't so much that it is complicated, but that it is inconvenient. I think you can probably still come up for two days on short notice, but you can't reserve a room for two days 6 months ahead of time and cancel on short notice if your schedule doesn't allow it. I'm sure it is inconvenient for many, but many others it is more convenient as the hotel rooms are available for longer stays.

Imagine wanting to book a room for the week but the rooms are unavailable for that length of stay because the rooms were snapped up by people reserving the second weekend only. The weeklong stay would have to be broken up into 4 days at the hotel and 3 days at an alternative site. Certainly not convenient for those folks.
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Ward wrote:
Sagrilarus wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.


So it isn't so much that it is complicated, but that it is inconvenient. I think you can probably still come up for two days on short notice, but you can't reserve a room for two days 6 months ahead of time and cancel on short notice if your schedule doesn't allow it. I'm sure it is inconvenient for many, but many others it is more convenient as the hotel rooms are available for longer stays.

Imagine wanting to book a room for the week but the rooms are unavailable for that length of stay because the rooms were snapped up by people reserving the second weekend only. The weeklong stay would have to be broken up into 4 days at the hotel and 3 days at an alternative site. Certainly not convenient for those folks.


As I said, there are two market audiences here - the diehard ten dayers and the casuals / walk-ons.

The Con orgs have to satisfy the diehards, because without them, a ten day con would be untenable. The walk-ons are great, but they would never sustain ten day convention.

This isn't GenCon. Thank goodness for that fact.

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Gareth Williams
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And if you are the Hotel you would rather fill up for people who are going to be there for the whole con.

If you sell out rooms to people who are only going to be there for the last weekend then those rooms are very probably going to be empty and unsaleable for the first week of the con.

That directly affects how profitable WBC is for 7S
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Ward wrote:
Sagrilarus wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.


So it isn't so much that it is complicated, but that it is inconvenient. I think you can probably still come up for two days on short notice, but you can't reserve a room for two days 6 months ahead of time and cancel on short notice if your schedule doesn't allow it. I'm sure it is inconvenient for many, but many others it is more convenient as the hotel rooms are available for longer stays.

Imagine wanting to book a room for the week but the rooms are unavailable for that length of stay because the rooms were snapped up by people reserving the second weekend only. The weeklong stay would have to be broken up into 4 days at the hotel and 3 days at an alternative site. Certainly not convenient for those folks.


Never camped on a reservation in Lancaster. Never needed to. There were enough rooms in walking distance to reserve a couple of weeks in advance. It's a shame the new place runs things so much tighter. Not enough resources, or has the con gotten that much bigger?
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Sagrilarus wrote:
Ward wrote:
Sagrilarus wrote:
natsean wrote:
Quote:
This has become complicated.


This is the first year all of these things are in place, though. I think it is more that it is new than complicated.

Plus, as was said above, you can call and talk to a rep and they explain it all. I read all the stuff to be prepared, but when I booked, I asked a few simple questions to make sure everything was clear.

It will be a breeze next year.

Kevin


    No, I mean that you need to have an extended stay, and you need to commit earlier and you need to put non-refundable money on the table. It used to be I could come up for two days on short notice if my schedule allowed it.

             S.


So it isn't so much that it is complicated, but that it is inconvenient. I think you can probably still come up for two days on short notice, but you can't reserve a room for two days 6 months ahead of time and cancel on short notice if your schedule doesn't allow it. I'm sure it is inconvenient for many, but many others it is more convenient as the hotel rooms are available for longer stays.

Imagine wanting to book a room for the week but the rooms are unavailable for that length of stay because the rooms were snapped up by people reserving the second weekend only. The weeklong stay would have to be broken up into 4 days at the hotel and 3 days at an alternative site. Certainly not convenient for those folks.


Never camped on a reservation in Lancaster. Never needed to. There were enough rooms in walking distance to reserve a couple of weeks in advance. It's a shame the new place runs things so much tighter. Not enough resources, or has the con gotten that much bigger?


Lancaster is a tourist attraction with mature hotel market. 7 Springs is a resort/ski lodge with limited, year round visitors. Comparing the two isn't even possible.

With that said, I never visited the rat trap that was the previous site in Lancaster, so it doesn't appear that I would have ever traveled there even if I could have stayed in a Ritz hotel.
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darthhugo wrote:

Lancaster is a tourist attraction with mature hotel market. 7 Springs is a resort/ski lodge with limited, year round visitors. Comparing the two isn't even possible.


    Sure it is. Does it serve the needs of the convention? It's really that simple.

    WBC had to move no doubt. If the new venue is out of space because the convention has grown, that's a sign of good news not bad. I'm not arguing that part of the issue.
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