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Subject: Buying wood to launch ships from Home rss

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Michael Cabral
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Hi everyone, it seems that I have been paying more Reals than I should.

Scenario:
- Currently no wood but I have access to wood.
- Need to launch two new ships from home.
- How much does it cost? 2 Reals or 3 Reals total?

When I previously played the physical game I was paying 3 Reals since in my mind I needed 2 wood for the action. 1 wood for one ship and another 1 wood for the second ship. I look to the top and see that 2 wood is 3 Reals.

I have been playing Madeira online on BGA extensively. And this scenario came up for me. To my pleasant surprise, I only needed 2 Reals. In hindsight it becomes clear to me. You only need 1 wood when you launch the first ship; 1 Real to buy 1 wood. Place the ship and get the King's Reward or money. Second action is now to pay 1 Real for 1 wood again because that is all you need for each ship.

Conversely, you will need to pay 3 Reals to buy 2 wood during maintenance in phase D as you need 2 wood at that moment.

Is the BGA implementation correct? I think it is and I have been playing incorrectly all along but thankfully it hasn't come up many times.
 
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Andrew J
United States
Beverly Hills
Michigan
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This question comes up a lot. I consider this the authoritative answer:

darkpact wrote:
Thunkd wrote:
This is really a wood question in disguise. In the rules it says that you pay for wood at the end of your turn... but what is a turn. Would a single die placement constitute a turn?

That wording was used especially for the Commander action, as every other time you just take and pay. But in case of the Commander we wanted to prevent that the player buys one wood for the first ship and then one wood for the second ship. In that case you need to pay a total of 3 Real.

So the BGA implementation is incorrect. Launching 2 ships requires 2 wood which is 3 reals, and the launching of the 2 ships is a "turn." However, the maintenance is part of a different "turn" so you would again just pay 3 reals for 2 wood during maintenance.

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Michael Cabral
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Ah so I had been implementing the rule correctly. Thanks!
 
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Nate Dorward
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Huh, probably a bug report is in order. Good to know.
 
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Michael Cabral
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Okay a different scenario now:

- I have the Navigator Guild Tile
- No wood currently but I have access to wood
- How much does it cost?

For brevity, I am removing the quantity and type of goods discarded when placing a ship on a location.


BGA implementation of the rule:
1. Use Navigator Guild tile and launch one ship, pay 1 Real; get money/Crown Reward immediately (Total 1 Real)
2. Place guild or pirate die on Commander character and launch 2nd ship, pay 1 Real for 1 wood; get money/Crown Reward (Total 2 Reals)
3. Launch 3rd ship and pay 1 Real for 1 wood; get money/Crown Reward (Total 3 Reals)

Spending 3 Reals is a bargain.


How I have been implementing the rule in the past:
1. Use Navigator Guild Tile and launch one ship, pay 1 Real; get money/Crown Reward immediately (Total 1 Real)
2. Place guild or pirate die on Commander character and launch 2nd ship, pay 2 Reals; get money/Crown Reward immediately (Total 3 Reals)
3. Launch 3rd ship, pay 3 Reals; get money/Crown Reward immediately (Total 6 Real)

Some can argue that the Guild Tile is an extra action and should only be subjected to 1 Real. And 3 Reals (1 and 2 Reals for deploying both ships) for the turn proper using the commander, giving the player a 2 Real discount.

The question now is am I also not implementing the rules correctly? I am using the money I just gained from sending the ship to pay for the subsequent launching ships.

I have included the rules below.

The rules for the Commander (pg. 10)
"If he moves a Ship from his Home he needs to immediately
discard 1 Wood for it.
The player may buy the Wood if he
needs more than he currently has and if he has access to it.
(see below)."

Looks below.

"When a player needs to discard Wood, he always has to use
the Wood in his Home supply first.

He can buy further Wood, but only if he needs to discard
more than he currently has, and only if he has access to it,
i.e. he can only take it from:
▶ Fields with Wood, if he has Workers on them
and/or
▶ the general supply, if he has a Worker on the Forest Field.
He has to pay for the total amount of Wood he bought in
his turn:
1, 3, 6, 10, 15, 21 Reals for 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 Wood.

The player does not pay any Reals for using the Wood from
his Home supply; only for the Wood he has to buy.

The player takes the bought Wood and immediately discards
it according to the action he is performing. He cannot buy
Wood if he doesn’t need to discard it."
 
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Andrew J
United States
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My opinion, and the way I implement the rules, is that the use of the Navigator and the Commander is all part of a single "turn" that would require 3 wood (6 reals). I only say this because there is nothing about the use of a Guild Favor that suggests to me that it is a separate "turn," particularly since the rules for activating them clearly specify that you can only activate one of your face-up tiles at the "beginning of each of [your] turns" (i.e., it is part of the "turn" you are taking).

I would think that you can use the benefits obtained from the use of the Navigator (reals from a market route or a King's Reward, for example) to fund the ships launched as part of the Commander action, but you can't use the benefits obtained from the first ship launched pursuant to the Commander action to fund the launch of the second ship from the Commander action.

This is my reading of the rules which provide for the Commander action that

"After moving the ships, he may do the following, in any order:
For each Ship just moved into a Market Route slot, he gains the indicated number of Reals from the general supply,
For each ship just moved into a Colony Landing slot, he immediately performs the action of 1 of the 2 King's Rewards in that Colony."

In other words, you have to move both ships and then perform their respective actions (if you moved two ships) in any order you want. Had it been intended that each of the ships in the Commander action be separately resolved, the rules probably would have said "After moving each of the ships..." and there would have been no need to specify that the player could choose the order of the resulting effects.

[/rules lawyering]
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George S
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"After moving the ships..."

This is important and I haven't noticed it after many many plays.
And it changes the game a bit because now some things can't happen.

For example let's say you have only one wood and no access to wood and you wanna move 2 ships from home. Assume that there is the king reward about moving one worker in a field. Your first ship goes there,you move a worker to the forest (=access to wood) and now you can move your second ship.
Not with the correct rules.

Or you have access to wood and no money and you want to move 2 ships from home. Unfortunately, you can't go to the market with the 1st ship and use the money gained there to move the other ship.
 
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