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Santorini» Forums » Rules

Subject: Confusion about Additional Setup Rules Timing with God Powers rss

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Dale Taylor
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I just purchased Santorini. What a beautiful and challenging game. The rules are generally very well written. However, I was unclear about the Additional Setup section where God Powers are used.

In my printed rules, it says (page 2, column 2 - towards the bottom): "Additional Setup must be performed when using some God Powers. If your selected God Power features "Setup" text in the description, execute these special instructions during the game Setup. If the order players perform additional setup gives either player an advantage, execute them in turn order."

I am not sure about the timing of when you execute your Setup God Power. Is it before both players place workers or after? Or is it done before or after the owning player places his/her workers?

Also, could someone clarify the last line of the quoted rules above (about giving either player an advantage and turn order) with an example regarding when this might make a difference?

I'm still a newbie and I have only attempted the base game. Maybe this would all be clearer when I graduate to playing with the God Powers.
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Chris Laudermilk
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Read the setup text for the god. It usually tells you what the timing is.
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Trevor Schadt
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Dalmari wrote:
I am not sure about the timing of when you execute your Setup God Power. Is it before both players place workers or after? Or is it done before or after the owning player places his/her workers?
It depends on the God in question.

For example, Bia's Setup instructions are "Place your Workers first." This is important so that Bia cannot immediately eliminate one of an opponent's workers.

Eros's Setup instructions are "Place your Workers anywhere along opposite edges of the board." This is important because Eros's alternate win condition involves that player's two Workers being adjacent to each other.

Dalmari wrote:
Also, could someone clarify the last line of the quoted rules above (about giving either player an advantage and turn order) with an example regarding when this might make a difference?
Bia vs Eros is a perfect example. Bia's player would place their workers first, because placing them second would give that player a significant advantage.
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Most of the setup powers tell you when you need to perform the setup actions. There are a few that leave setup timing unspecified. The first update to the rules will clarify these to happen before placing workers in player order.
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Dale Taylor
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Thanks so much for your quick responses.

Michael, I'll watch for that rules update for further clarification.
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Dale Taylor
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Would this revised version of the last line of the rules quoted above be accurate?

If the order in which players perform additional setup instructions gives either player an advantage, a new player order will be noted. Otherwise, execute the new instructions before either player places their workers in turn order.
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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No, the intent wasn't to have different orders for setting up powers and turn order. The issue is that some powers should activate before workers are placed even though the player will go second, such as Chaos' first power and directions for Siren and Aeolus. (Prior to the final rules, Aeolus didn't have a wind direction until the end of his first turn. In the old version of Santorini, Siren had a fixed direction.)
 
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Dale Taylor
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Thanks once again for your prompt response. I understand your example and the others that have been given. I'm pretty sure I can play the game properly at this point.

I'm just having difficulty wrapping my head around the wording of that last line. Somehow it just doesn't seem to mesh completely with the other info in this thread. For example, if Bia is the second player, I understand why the player has to place workers first. But, according to that ambiguous rules line, because Bia has gained an advantage, that player would play in turn order - which is second. To me, there is some confusion there.

Would Bia place workers first during setup and then play second?

I'm sure your forthcoming rules update will make things clearer for me.
 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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Bia and Tartarus play in the order that they place. Turn order is determined by placement order (place first and take first turn). Normally the Challenger chooses who will place first, but Bia overrides this in the Setup section. Basically, setup covers all the things that you might need to do for a power before you take your first turn. Future powers might even instruct the Challenger to do things before players chose their powers.
 
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Dale Taylor
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How about this line revision:

If the special instructions players perform during additional setup give either (or both) players an advantage, execute them in the turn order determined by the Challenger. On occasion, the turn order may instead be determined by the instructions themselves.

Am I getting closer?

 
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Michael Van Biesbrouck
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No.

The issue is when to do setup without a specified time. The resolution is to do it before workers are placed. Use the same order as placement order if you have multiple powers trying to set up before placement (or after, for that matter).

It wasn't that the old instructions were wrong about the order in which players should perform setup if they would otherwise be doing it at the same time, it is that there exist powers that didn't tell you whether you should perform the setup before, during or after worker placement and they needed a default.
 
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Dale Taylor
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The lights are on and there was finally somebody home!

I think I've finally got it.

Thanks so much for your patience and effort to clarify.
 
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